Hamilton Private Labels, Please add to the list

Jim Haney

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Jeff Hess had it up for sale and for less than $100 it was too good to pass on :thumb:;)
 

musicguy

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yeah thats the one I saw. nice catch!



Rob
 

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I like these early 992s better than the later pattern, also should be a single roller. Dial and movement look to be in good condition. Enjoy it.
 

musicguy

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#258209, Grade 924
New addition to my NY private label collection and a town I know well.
1903 Dwight Dutcher, Warwick, New York.
Dwight George Dutcher and Clara M Dutcher (born Tillotson).
Dwight was born in May 1859, in Montague, Sussex, New Jersey, USA.
Clara was born on October 15 1866, in Westbrookville, Sullivan, New York.
Dwight W. Dutcher (1859-1927) - Find A Grave Memorial

There is something about a PL that has a town I know that makes them almost irresistible to me.

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Rob
 
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johnbscott

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#258209, Grade 924
New addition to my NY private label collection and a town I know well.
1903 Dwight Dutcher, Warwick, New York.
Dwight George Dutcher and Clara M Dutcher (born Tillotson).
Dwight was born in May 1859, in Montague, Sussex, New Jersey, USA.
Clara was born on October 15 1866, in Westbrookville, Sullivan, New York.
Dwight W. Dutcher (1859-1927) - Find A Grave Memorial

There is something about a PL that has a town I know that makes them almost irresistible to me.

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Rob
A thorough and beautifully illustrated description of your lovely watch, thank you.

You are not the only one who finds particular private label watches irresistible!
 

Old rookie

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A 940 for J. W. Neasham, Ottumwa, IA. Google and Find a Grave have background data on John William Neasham. The watch is 18s, 21j. All jewels are ruby except the endstones for the balance, lever and escape wheel which are diamond. That puzzles me and I'm trying to research it although I have a couple of theories. The movement is also marked "Special No. 599" also a "puzzlement" although I suspect it may be part of Neasham's marketing strategy.
I also learned from Fred Hansen that Neasham was the official watch inspector for the C.B. & Q. and the C.M. & St.P railways. neasham1a.jpg neasham2a.jpg neasham3a.jpg neasham4.jpg
 

Paul Sullivan

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Old Rookie,

That's a nice 940 private label and I think your right in Neasham adding the 599 as a selling point. Perhaps it was a number of a locomotive or something else. The watch wasn't marked "Special" in the Hamilton ledgers as many others were, so this was probably added by Neasham also.
Certainly a more unique PL than found on other Hamiltons.
 
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Old rookie

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Here is a Hamilton grade 936, model 1, class 2. A PL for H.J.Howe of Syracuse, NY. He's is mentioned in a few other threads but I haven't found much more about him other than he enjoyed a hefty reputation as Tiffany's of upstate New York. I do know the watch was sold to Howe on 6 June 1898.
s/n is 11162 and it is one big honkin' watch. howe1.jpg howe2.jpg howe4.jpg howe3.jpg howe5.jpg howe6.jpg
 

John Cote

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Here is a Hamilton grade 936, model 1, class 2. A PL for H.J.Howe of Syracuse, NY.
s/n is 11162 and it is one big honkin' watch.
I love it. The RR track dial is a favorite. These early 936 (RR) private labels are a great thing to collect.
 

Leigh Callaway

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These early 936 (RR) private labels are a great thing to collect.
I agree. Here's SN 939 which came to me a year ago last December running sluggishly. I admit to OCD - each addition to my collection gets serviced (not by me I'm just a collector). This got an escape wheel jewel, a balance hole and cap, two intermediate winding wheels, a setting lever spring and a new mainspring.
Sold Sep 15, 1894 to A.W. Bishop - I haven't found anything about him.

Ham 936  Dial w bezel.jpg Ham 936 SN 939 Movement.jpg

IMG_5079.JPG IMG_5082.JPG
 

John Cote

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Sold Sep 15, 1894 to A.W. Bishop - I haven't found anything about him.
I love it Leigh. Here is what "Find-A-Grave" has on the dude...

Augustus William Bishop was born at Connellsville on February 19th, 1867. His parents had first come to Connellsville in 1832. Augustus found work with Connellsville’s first jeweler, A, B. Morton in 1881. He took to that work enthusiastically and started his own jewelry shop at Connellsville in 1887. He married his wife Alice May on June 30th, 1890. Augustus joined with John Soisson, in 1895, to incorporate the Connellsville Wheelmen’s Athletic Association to promote Bicycling, Baseball, Football and other athletic sports in Connellsville. Augustus was the first exalted ruler of the Connellsville Elks lodge and helped to organize the Connellsville Chamber of Commerce. He was a Captain of the Regimental Staff of Connellsville’s Third Battalion, First Regiment Uniformed Knights of Pythias. He loved music and was a member of Klyce’s band, one of Connellsville’s first musical organizations. He was elected as one of Connellsville’s School Directors in 1911 and was one of the first to push for building a new high school to replace the old Cameron building. A.W.'s son Milton L. Bishop, who Connellsville's American Legion post was named after, was one of Connellsville’s first killed while fighting in World War 1 at Europe on his parents’ 28th wedding anniversary, June 30th, 1918. He never seemed to revive his zest for life after the news of Milton’s death and Augustus passed away on November 2nd, 1920 at the age of 53 and was buried at Hill Grove Cemetery. He did live long enough to see Connellsville honor his son with the filing to establish their Legion post in Milton’s name. A.W.'s grave marker photo is courtesy of findagrave.com

AWB .jpg
 

Jskirk

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So around 6500 of these produced, were there alot of 934 private labels ?
 

Paul Sullivan

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Here is a Hamilton grade 936, model 1, class 2. A PL for H.J.Howe of Syracuse, NY. He's is mentioned in a few other threads but I haven't found much more about him other than he enjoyed a hefty reputation as Tiffany's of upstate New York. I do know the watch was sold to Howe on 6 June 1898.
Here is some information H.J. Howe I garnered when posting my 924 Howe in post #382 above.

H.J. Howe bio a-down.png collage 3.jpg
 

unicornfarmvt

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This is a nice Hamilton "931" Grade of which they produced 4000.

Serial number 35447. The Ledgers shows this and #46 Sold to, O.D. Leidal, Fergus Falls, Minn on 5-2-1899.

The 930& 931 had a nice DMK pattern and blue plate & jewel screws. These were 16J watches.
In a nice Keystone case with a "C" marked below the serial number?


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Hi Jim
I believe the O. D. Leidal you mention was my great great grandfather. i am seeking watches related to him as i have just learned he was a clockmaker. And do you know anything else about this O. D. Leidal and whether there are more watches out there associated with him? I believe he also had a jewelry store called Leidals jewelry. Anyways, on a geneologica and watch related mission! Thank you
 

Jim Haney

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Welcome to the NAWCC Forums. I am glad that you were able to track down this Private label watch.

Hamilton( Most other Companies also) would personalize watches for Jewelers to help promote their business and it was a advertising & free publicity for them.

You can send me a Private conservation about the watch, we are not allowed to Buy/Sell in the open forums.
 
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viclip

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Here's a Canuck private label 926 (manu. 1909) with a Canadian dial embossed with the name of "Howell Bros. & Knowltons ... Windsor".

They were jewellers located in Windsor, Ontario, Canada just across the river from Detroit, Michigan. Their premises were found on Windsor's main drag at 17 Ouellette Ave. Whatever may have been left of the site vanished in a redevelopment some quarter century ago.

The movement does show in the Hamilton factory ledgers as having been sold to H.A. Osgood & Son. A certain Henry A. Osgood & his son Charles H. Osgood are known to have traded as jewellers & silversmiths under that company name with locations in Maine & New York. Maybe they traded in Canada too?

Ham HB&K Dial.jpg


Ham HB&K Mvt.jpg


Ham HB&K caseInfo.jpg
 

Old rookie

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Jim Haney

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Grade 934. This is a Private Label for Wilson Bros, Greenfield, OH.

Low Serial number is 5089 made in the first run of 4301-5100.

The 934 was a fairly scarce grade with a total production of 6413 watches.

The Case is Dueber 20 Year 10KT

This watch was finished and sold to them on 12-6-1895.

DSCN6647.JPG DSCN6649.JPG DSCN6646.JPG DSCN6644.JPG DSCN6650.JPG DSCN6652.JPG Halligan's Notes and Movements Hamilton 152.jpg
 

Leigh Callaway

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Another 960P.
Halligan notes indicate the first 960P to the finishing room was SN 50501 on Dec 16, 1898. This is eleven numbers higher, sold August 7, 1899 to Frank J. Reaves of Lancaster, Pennsylvania.
Ham 960P 1899.jpg SN 50512 Mvmt.jpg
"J.D. Brinser" on the movement and the dial. There was a J.D. Brinser in Lancaster who filed a patent July 1894 for an "electric motor fan." The Electrical World - Google Books
Needed only a crystal and mainspring. Running just fine.
 

John Cote

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Another Springfield Hamilton 960P, serial number 50594 of 1899. No maker's mark, just the serial number and the word "Adjusted" on the movement and the notation "F E Ladd, Springfield Mass" on the seemingly original dial.

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John, this watch seems too have been sold to Albert Walker of Providence, RI on the 29th of December 1899. At this time in the history of Hamilton, some watches were sold through regional distributors and Providence was pretty big in the wholesale jewelry business so your PL dial probably makes sense. My Springfield PL was sold through Hayden W Wheeler of NY.
 
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johnbscott

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John, this watch seems too have been sold to Albert Walker of Providence, RI on the 29th of December 1899. At this time in the history of Hamilton, some watches were sold through regional distributors and Providence was pretty big in the wholesale jewelry business so your PL dial probably makes sense. My Springfield PL was sold through Hayden W Wheeler of NY.
John, thanks for the comment.

I have noticed quite a few New England private label early 16s Hamiltons. My impression is that Hamilton had very effective marketing in that region.
 
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johnbscott

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John, thanks for the comment.

I have noticed quite a few New England private label early 16s Hamiltons. My impression is that Hamilton had very effective marketing in that region.
A little bit more on Hamilton 50594.

As has been pointed out, the Hamilton factory records show that the movement was sold, by Hamilton, to Albert Walker of Providence, RI. From to the results of some simple internet searching, we can know that Albert Walker of Providence RI operated a jewelry supply house and issued catalogs of gold and plated jewellery and American watches. In 1915 his business was in operation at 152 Weybosset Street, "at the centre of the manufacturing jewelry industry" according to his catalog.

As the movement of Hamilton 50594 has no identifying maker's marking, it is clear that it was always intended to be a private label movement. As there is no private label marking on the movement, the intention would have been for a distributer, in this case Walker, to have full flexibility as to which private label dial he might decide to apply.

Springfield MA is close enough to Providence RI for us to be able to assume, as John has suggested, that Walker applied a dial marked for Ladd to Hamilton 50594 and distributed a complete watch, incorporating both items, to Ladd, in Springfield.
 
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musicguy

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PostalWatchGuy Merging your new Hamilton PL thread with the main Hamilton private label thread


Rob
 

Old rookie

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My latest is a Hamilton grade 924, 18s, 17j, movement marked for the C&EI RR (Chicago & Eastern Illinois), dial marked J.W.Veatch, Rossville, Ill.
Veatch was a jeweler in Rossville adjacent the C&EI. S/N 132729, circa 1901. PWDB states the watch is not RR grade and is not adjusted. PWDB is sometimes in error but these are two serious omissions. The watch may have been RR approved early in its career but not now. It is also possible that Veatch marked the watch for the C&EI RR to make it more attractive to local C&EI railroaders. Not ethical but possible. I just don't know and was hoping a more experienced collector could shed some light on the issue.

cei1.jpg cei2.jpg cei3.jpg bun4.jpg cei6.jpg
 
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Leigh Callaway

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I just don't know and was hoping a more experienced collector could shed some light on the issue.
I am not your experienced collector but this 924 may shed some light. Note that the SN is just 18 numbers lower than yours and our watches were finished and sold within a few days of each other.
I bought the watch at a J&H auction a year ago. The J&H description read "...despite its marking it is worth note that this Grade 924 movement would generally not have been considered acceptable for railroad time service at its time of production." I'm pretty sure that whoever wrote that is an experienced collector.

Butler 01.jpg Butler 03.jpg Butler 04.jpg Butler 05.jpg

On edit: Dec 2001 "So What is a Railroad Watch?": 810-819:810-819.qxd.qxd (nawcc.org)

Photos and quote courtesy Jones & Horan
 
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johnbscott

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Let us recall that "Railroad Grade" was a marketing tool, to a large extent. All Hamilton pocket watches were of high quality and items such as those two Grade 924 watches should be treasured for what they are - examples of high technology from a century (and more) ago, with provenance. I should be very surprised if those watches would not keep excellent time (within a second, or two, per day) if properly cared for. What more could be desired?
 

musicguy

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Great NY PL Hamilton. Nice dial and marked movement!


Rob
 

John Cote

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.....PWDB states the watch is not RR grade and is not adjusted. PWDB is sometimes in error but these are two serious omissions. The watch may have been RR approved early in its career but not now. It is also possible that Veatch marked the watch for the C&EI RR to make it more attractive to local C&EI railroaders. Not ethical but possible. I just don't know and was hoping a more experienced collector could shed some light on the issue.
The argument over RR Grade or not has become almost absurd. There is no winning.

Here's what I would say. There is a difference between "RR Grade and accepted into RR service. The Hamilton Watch Company did not consider the grade 924 to be RR grade and neither do most collectors. That said, some RR lines may have accepted this watch into RR service. Also, most lines had different rules for different types of employees. While the engineer and the brakeman and maybe the conductory may have been required to have a RR grade watch, some employees may not have. I really doubt that a RR engineer would have had a 924 as his work watch but when I say that, I know that someone will find an exception.

What I want to know is why it makes a difference...especially in the case of this splendid watch. This is a very scarce and beautiful watch associated with a jeweler and with the RR business. It is a very collectable and cool watch...RR grade or not.
 

Old rookie

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John, it doesn't make a difference I was asking out of curiosity and I appreciate the responses. It is a beautiful watch but with over 140,000 produced scarce might be a bit of a stretch. Thanks for taking time to comment.
 
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John Cote

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John, it doesn't make a difference I was asking out of curiosity and I appreciate the responses. It is a beautiful watch but with over 140,000 produced scarce might be a bit of a stretch. Thanks for taking time to comment.
I guess it all depends on how you define scarce or rare. To me this is not just another 924. It is a private label 924. Private labels are usually scarce. Being scarce in and of itself doesn't mean much. Most scarce private labels aren't in high demand or valuable. Yours however, is no run of the mill PL. While it may be no more scarce than your typical "Joe Blow Jewelry, Bug Fug, Iowa" Pl, it is certainly much more desirable.

I never use scarce or even rare with the connotation of cool or valuable or desirable or even interesting. Your watch is scarce and all of the former.
 
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4thdimension

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And in a drop dead gorgeous case to boot.-Cort
 

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