Hamilton Private Labels, Please add to the list

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Jim Haney, May 4, 2012.

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  1. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Telluride jeweler"

    img531.jpg
     
  2. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    "ADMIRAL" was a early Private Label from Knights &Co. Chicago and usually only seen on very early 976& 977 watches.

    Something must have not worked out for the deal with them and they faded out in a short period of time.
     

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  3. richiec

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Just to add a little more to the Jean Tack story, his father, b. 1849 in Germany, immigrated from Germany and opened the jewelry business before 1880, his son, Jean Jr. took over from his father. The business lasted past 1955 in Newark, NJ. Junior died in Belmar NJ in July 1967. I have a Hampden 18S with his label on it.
     
  4. JohnL

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Jim

    B.B Perkins & Co listed as Jewelers in Saint Albans Vermont in 1899. Close to the Canadian Border.


    JL
     
  5. Kent

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    JL:

    Perhaps you could give us a few details about the movement; serial number, size, grade, number of jewels, lever or pendant-set, open-face or hunting, stuff like that.

    Thanks,
     
  6. Harvey Mintz

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    #106 Harvey Mintz, Nov 14, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2013
    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    A Chesapeake & Ohio Railway Special, private label from W. L. Fredeking, Hinton W. Va.

    Note that this is not only a rare marking, it's on a factory re-numbered movement: the original serial number was 436.



    Edit. Harvey that is one sweet watch.






    DSCN0351.jpg DSCN0352.jpg
     
  7. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    287514 - Conductor (marked movement, SSR "The Williams Watch" dial)

    121.jpg 124.jpg
     
  8. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    "New Model" Serial # 399631 sold to Smith, Patterson, Co. Boston.:eek::excited:

    This was a large volume agent for Hamilton and I have some other watches sold to them with different names, Navigator, Boston Special, etc. and will have to make up a list sometime.

    The Ledger page shows most of the 50 and the 50 on the next page as Special Finish, which may mean several things, dials, Gilt trimed, engraving on movement, etc.

    Thanks, Fred:)
     

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  9. BILL KAPP

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Jim and Kent,

    Thought it interesting that the 962 serial # 50204 has another new dial! It is a completed auction so I guess we can mention it now.

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hamilton-962-for-Ball-Co-14K-Gold-Ball-Model-Case-EXTREMELY-RARE-/141168427657?ru=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ebay.com%2Fsch%2Fi.html%3F_sacat%3D0%26_from%3DR40%26_nkw%3D141168427657%26_rdc%3D1&nma=true&si=xEmVKcw9OSy0UtUuXnKLpGJZ6eI%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

    happy hunting
     
  10. Jim Haney

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  11. Paul Sullivan

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    924, 18s, ser. no. 98340, 17j (1899) C. Luther, Srcanton Pa.

    IMG_8632.jpg


    924 PL.jpg
     
  12. Greg C

    Greg C New Member

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Fred Hansen listed this one. It is now mine and thought I'd add pictures. I have family that lived and died in Farmer City Illinois making this one very important to me. Just recently was able to purchase this one. Dial.jpg Movement.jpg
     
  13. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Congrats Greg and great to see it go to a good home!
     
  14. 54strat

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    #114 54strat, Mar 22, 2014
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  15. Gimparoo

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    I jut purchased a Hamilton 974 #372715 Private Label, signed "Thos. J. Morrow" "Holyoke, Mass.", on both the Dial and Movement.
    Sad thing is it is not in the original case, as it was sold for the Gold. But is in a descent display case to show off its beauty.
     

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  16. Gimparoo

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    This I found on the Internet searching this Hamilton out....
     

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  17. Jim Haney

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    Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    This is a regular 975 with a great Fancy dial in a heavy 14K hunter case, Sorry forgot to show case.

    J. R. was the Father to Walter Sheaffer who became famous for the Sheaffer fountain pens.

    This is a short family history.

    Jacob Royer(J.R.) had a tough time but came back from bankruptcy and established 2 jewelry stores in Iowa.


    http://www.sheaffertarga.com/Sheaffer%20History/History%20of%20sheaffer.html
     

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  18. Rhett Lucke

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Jim,

    As you may know, the Sheaffer Pen Company is still active in Ft. Madison, Ia. There is also a small, but interesting museum in Ft. Madison, which is devoted to the company, it's history and products.

    While living in Eastern Iowa about 12-15 years ago, I took numerous trips to Ft. Madison - which was also on the Santa Fe Railroad Line. During one of these trips, I was able to purchase an 18 size Hamilton with very similar markings to your 975 on both the dial and movement. It was in a small antique shop and the lady also had an 18 size Illinois with similar markings on the movement and a plain (not multi colored) PL dial. On a subsequent trip, I went back to try and buy the Illinois but it had already sold - reportedly to a decendent of the Shaeffer family living on the west coast.
     
  19. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Rhett,
    Thanks for the info. I found this very interesting from the Bio I have a link to above..
    W A.Sheaffer turned around the fortunes of the family business by selling fine watches made by the Hamilton Watch Company, who did not sell to mail order companies.
    The 17 jewel Hamilton line watches sold between $14 and $45.The 7 jewel Elgin and Waltham watch sold at $3.95,Walters plan was to create a desire in a customer to own the best watch.
    His sale techniques worked and the Bloomfield store gradually pulled out of the red.

    The Sheaffer’s laid a foundation for their future success in the merchandizing the finest fountain pens.


    Another curiosity is that the Hamilton ledgers show the watches being sold to a L. C(?) Schafer, Chicago, A different spelling of the name or maybe someone else who was a agent in Chicago who handled his orders?
     
  20. Dave Coatsworth

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Just picked up this beautiful (despite the case) 960 for W. A. Harris of Los Angeles. Serial number 324344.

    Hamilton324344Dial.jpg Hamilton324344Mvmt.jpg
     
  21. Dave Coatsworth

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    580035 - 926 for J. Herbert Hall Co., Pasadena. "Hall's Special" on the movement.

    Hamilton580035Dial.jpg Hamilton580035Mvmt.jpg JHerbertHallStore.jpg
     
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  22. John Cote

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    I assume this is Pasadena, CA...and not Texas or Illinois or any of the other Pasadenas? :cuckoo:
     
  23. Dave Coatsworth

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    #123 Dave Coatsworth, Jul 12, 2014
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2014
    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Yes, California.

    A little info from Walter T. Hall's obituary dated March 23, 1967... "The J. Herbert Hall Company, known as "Tiffany's of the West", opened 70 years ago on Colorado Blvd. and Fair Oaks Ave. which was then the heart of the commercial center. As the population grew, the firm progressed with the city, moving eastward four times since its founding. It is now located in an attractive establishment at 725 E. Colorado Blvd."
     
  24. onsite

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Is there any consensus on the "correct, proper, appropriate" hands for the 18 size private labels?

    The only continuity I ​think I see is thin spade for the single sunk and heavy(heavier) spade for the double sunk.
     
  25. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Early grade 934 and 935 private labels often have umbrella style hands.

    Lower jeweled (15 or less) private label Hamiltons often have "closed morning glory" style hands.
     
  26. Greg Frauenhoff

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Fred,

    Do you mean "crescent" hands? As I recall, the umbrella style is usually associated with old Howard.

    FWIW, some early better grade private label Hamiltons I've seen have fleur-de-lis style hands.

    Greg
     
  27. Fred Hansen

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    #127 Fred Hansen, Jul 13, 2014
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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Possibly, the hands I mean are similar to these ...

    http://www.fhwatch.com/watermark.php?image=iCM11204a01.jpg

    ... here on a Grade 934 private label. I see these pretty often on many examples from earlier runs of 934 and 935, and not nearly as frequently among any other Hamilton grades.
     
  28. Greg Frauenhoff

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Fred,

    Thanks for the pics. The hands on your watch were known in the trade (by Hamilton and others) as crescent style. The hands used on some old Howards--that are known colloquially as umbrella style--have the large half-moon shaped bit pointed in the other direction. It's all rather pedantic, but what the heck.

    Cheers,

    Greg
     
  29. Paul Sullivan

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    #129 Paul Sullivan, Jul 16, 2014
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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Recently bought a Hamilton 934 #40439 @ 1898 "S.G. Twambley & Son, Biddeford Me." Philadelphia silverode case. According to ledgers, finished 8-11-98 Sold 9-27-99. to A. Walters(?) Prov. RI, thence S. G. TWAMBLEY & SONS , Biddeford Me.
    Twambley front.jpg

    Front of case

    Twamble 934 dial.jpg
    Dial

    Twamble 934 Movement.jpg
    Movement


    Another 934 #24871 purchased awhile back with similar umbrella hands, though not a private label.

    934 18s 24871.jpg
     
  30. Nigel Harrison

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Serial 910. D.C.Barrows - Willimantic Conn...Interesting Town name. Plain DS Hamilton Watch Co dial.
    IMG_1271.jpg
     
  31. Paul Sullivan

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Nigel,

    What a great looking 936 and such a low serial number!
     
  32. Nigel Harrison

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Yes agreed it is a very nice one...but I am no Hammy collector so it is no longer with me, but thought I would share it for those who have not seen it. :)
     
  33. Paul Sullivan

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Nigel,

    I a bit addicted to Hamiltons AND 18s watches! Right now my lowest Hami is 5 digits :(. But I am always on the prowl.
     
  34. Nigel Harrison

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    Nice one Paul, I think the 4 digit ones have become very affordable of late...IMHO..so that will probably change for you soon :)
     
  35. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    iPW11402a03.jpg iPW11402a08.jpg

    96832 - Howes Bros., 17 Jewel Special, Clinton Iowa (marked mvt and SS Roman dial)

    The Howes Bros. were watch inspectors of the Chicago and North Western Railway, and notice the Ball Watch Co. style hour numerals and minute markings of this dial.
     
  36. Keith R...

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    Re: Harward Special, J.R. Sheaffer, Bloomfield & Ft. Madison, Iowa

    47237 - George Bockman, 17 Jewel Special, Springfield, Minnesota (marked mvt and DS Jeweler selection dial)
    Olson Schlick & George Bockman Jewelers Springfield. Using seller post sale photos by permission, camera on the blink.
    Year I believe 1899, hands I am not familiar with Hamilton (assume ok unless advised). Keith

    View attachment 257385 View attachment 257386
     
  37. Tref

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Thank you Nigel, Fred, and Keith!
     
  38. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    iPW11405a01.jpg iPW11405a08.jpg

    175920 - F.E. Pirtle & Co., Council Grove Kan (marked mvt, DS Arabic "F.E. Pirtle & Co." dial)

    Frank E. Pirtle was a railroad watch inspector for the Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe Railway for 2 years in the 1890's and became a railroad watch inspector for the Missouri Pacific Railroad in 1900.
     
  39. Tref

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    Thank you very much Fred!
     
  40. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    No problem Tref, this is a great thread and I'm going to try to keep adding to it. Here's another private label Hayden Wheeler grade ...

    iCM11490a03.jpg

    75629 - The W.F. Plambeck Jewelry Co., Denver Colo

    Plambeck was a railroad watch inspector for the Western Division of the Atchison Topeka & Santa Fe Railway system.
     
  41. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    And another ...

    iPW11326a09.jpg

    175900 - E.D. Harrison, Pocatello Idaho (marked mvt)

    Harrison was a railroad watch inspector for the Oregon Short Line Railroad.
     
  42. Tref

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    This is good stuff Fred. The damaskeening on 75629 is what I believe to be called Pattern "B" Wavy? It is a bit different than that of 175900. Am I right in that? And if so, did Hamilton have a specific name for the latter?

    Thanks again!

    Tref
     
  43. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    I'm not sure Tref, the wavy patterns look awfully similar to me and if you were to rotate one of the pics 90 degrees I think the patterns would match up pretty closely. Worth noting that one watch is open face and one is hunting case, with the Hayden Wheeler's its even serial numbers open face and odd serials hunting case.

    The main variant I'm aware of with the Hayden Wheeler patterns is the circular damaskeen pattern found on some early examples in the 75000 serial run.
     
  44. Tref

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    I'm likely reading more into it than what is there Fred, but to me the pattern on the 175xxx examples seems to look more three dimensional than that found on the earlier ones. I think this is because the earlier pattern seems to flatten out on the down stroke between the high points of the waves, making them look less "fluffy". You have 75577 on your website that also looks this way.
    But unless someone can speak specifically to this I should probably not make note of it or differentiate between them in my document.
    Other what we would typically expect to find on Ball examples the only circular pattern I have noted in my document is on a couple of 936's, SN's 114513 and 114514 both of which were signed Cody and Olmstead on their movements. I haven't yet seen any of the HWW examples in the early 75xxx range. But I'll be on the lookout for them!

    Oh, and I hadn't noticed the difference between the odd and even serial numbers on the HWW and how they were found on Open and Hunter movements respectively. I wonder if Hamilton made a conscious effort to have that follow the same scheme that the Grade numbers corresponded to the two types as well. Thanks for the tip!
     
  45. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    That's possible but it also could be an effect of photo lighting and/or minor random variability in Hamilton's execution of the pattern, but it would be interesting to look for with a group of watches from each run side by side. I know a few of our members have sizable HWW collections and maybe someone can check it out and report back.

    Here's a good pic of the early circular HWW damaskeen on serial #75023, photo courtesy Jones-Horan auction archives ...

    http://www.jones-horan.com/1302/images/13976_b.jpg
     
  46. Tref

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Yes indeed. I'll leave out any note of differentiation unless we hear from someone that can compare them in hand. Thanks!
     
  47. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    iPW11418a01.jpg iPW11418a09.jpg

    38650 - Main Line Special, W.M. Stone, Minneapolis Minn. (marked mvt w/ wavy damaskeen pattern, "W.M. Stone, Minneapolis Minn" marked dial)

    William Stone was a watch inspector for the Chicago Milwaukee & St. Paul Railway and the "Main Line" marking was found on a number of grades of Hamiltons marked for Stone.
     
  48. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    991.jpg 992.jpg

    175013 - Main Line, Minneapolis Minn (marked mvt, "W.M. Stone" marked dial)
     
  49. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    iPW11416a08.jpg

    334701 - Inspector's Standard (marked mvt)

    The 21 jewel "Inspector's Standard" and the 17 jewel "Official Standard" marked watches were both made for Smith Patterson Co. of Boston, MA and came in 16 and 18 size versions. There's a good past thread on these watches at this link ... https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?74826
     
  50. cmstpprr

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    A Bloedel Jewelers Milwaukee WI Hamilton 924 S/N 120529 case not original to mvmt
    Hamilton 924..jpg A Bloedel mvmt.jpg
     

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