Hamilton Private Labels, Please add to the list

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Jim Haney, May 4, 2012.

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  1. chief13365

    chief13365 Registered User

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Wm Kennedy, Albany, NY
    Hamilton 974, #72509, SW/PS
     

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  2. chief13365

    chief13365 Registered User

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    #52 chief13365, Jan 18, 2013
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Hamilton - Henry J Howe, Syracuse, NY
    Mdl 978, #1286670, 17j, SW/LS, 1918
     

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  3. chief13365

    chief13365 Registered User

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Hamilton - Central City, Syracuse, NY,
    Mdl 928, 15j, SW/LS, 1897
    The Hamilton ledgers have this watch being sold to Henry J Howe, Syracuse, NY.
     

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  4. sderek

    sderek Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Serial number 130805
    Grade 926 17 jewel
    C.R. Church Homer Michigan

    Ledgers list this as being sold to someone in Buffalo, N.Y., but I can't make out the name.

    IMG_9134a.JPG IMG_9132a.JPG
     
  5. chief13365

    chief13365 Registered User

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    The Hamilton agent for Buffalo, NY was VanderVoort Bros. Could it be them?
     
  6. sderek

    sderek Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    That must be it. That's an unusual name, and I couldn't quite make it out.

    I've been meaning to ask this question for a while...... Why was VanderVoort a middle man between Hamilton and Church? Couldn't Church have gotten private label watches directly from Hamilton?
     
  7. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    The larger watch companies sold to jobbers who then sold, on the wholesale level, to the retailers.

    Huge retailers, like Sears, Roebuck were probably able to buy direct from the watch companies.

    Smaller watch companies, like South Bend (at least originally), sold directly to retailers who had exclusive territories.
     
  8. burt

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    If you examine the Hamilton ledgers it appears that the company early on sold direct to retail jewelers. At some point they made a decision to go thru jobbers as their fixed price schedule indicates.
     
  9. burt

    burt Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list


    Yes,as I wrote at least in the early days.
    Here are just a few examples from the first day sales at Hamilton. December 9,1893.In ther ledgers for location of the buyer the ledgers are marked "City" I didn't know what this meant until I looked them up. I don't know how long this direct sales practice went on but I own a Hamilton 934 ser # 5258 which was sold on 2-23-1896 to a local jeweler James G.Martin who had a retail store on 118 S.Main St. in Wilkes-Barre, Pa.
    #3 936 sold to T.Wilson Dubbs who was a local Lancaster jeweler located at 149 N.Queen St. and lived at 55 West End Ave. near the factory.
    #20 932 sold to H.M. Shreiner a local Lancaster jeweler located at 30 N.Queen St. and lived at 112 N.Prince
    #27 932 sold to F.B. Fon Dersmith a local Lancaster jeweler located at 10 W.King St. who beds at 546 W.King
    #73 932 sold to Louis Weber a local Lancaster jeweler located at 159 1/2 N.Queen and lived above the store
    He are some pages from the R.L.Polk & Co. Lancaster Directory 1899-1900


    FonDersmith,Jeweler.jpg H.M.Shreiner,Jeweler.jpg Louis Weber,Jeweler.jpg
     
  10. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Good point.

    Yet at the same early time as the retail names appear in the ledger, Ball was named to be Hamilton's Western Agent. Mixed in with those retailers is the name J.W. Forsinger, a Chicago jobber.
     

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  11. burt

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    #61 burt, Jan 27, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Kent,

    How many times have you written or read anything or anyway to sell a watch!

    Burt

    Interesting you mentioned J.W.Forsinger of Chicago. He did get one of the first Hamiltons finished but a little late! A 936,#51 was reported finished 4-28-1894 but wasn't sold to him until it was renumbered 30051 and finally sold on 1-5-1898.
     
  12. MFRC1956

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    #62 MFRC1956, Jan 27, 2013
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    I don
     
  13. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Michael:

    How about their serial numbers?
     
  14. burt

    burt Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Kent,
    I wanted to follow up on Ball and that add in the Jeweler's Circular dated Oct. 3,1894. I know sales were slow in the begining but it appears that Ball's first purchace from Hamilton wasn't until two model 932's #145 and #208 on 1-14-1895. His next was on 7-10-1895 again a model 932 # 118. A single watch #245 on 12-3-1895. The he then ordered on 7-23-1896 two very early 936's #6 and #10. Perhaps slow sales in the begining of Hamilton's history does reinforce that the company did everything that was necessary to boost selling watches to reduce inventory and increase production. I only went thru the first few hundred watches and may have missed something but I was interested in how significant Ball's first purchases were to Hamilton.
    Burt
     
  15. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    #65 Jim Haney, Jan 27, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2013
    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    burt,
    In Oct-Nov. of 1896 Ball bought the 1st 16 size watches that Hamilton started producing. They didn't have his name on them and would most likely purchased as test watches for his company to see what they like etc.
    I do have pictured below 50204 with Ball & Co. on the movement and Case and assume that the dial is a replacement.
     

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  16. Kent

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    #66 Kent, Jan 27, 2013
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Jim:

    I think that the serial number is 50204. If so, you can stop assuming. It was on a well-known mail-order dealer's list in 1997 bearing an ORRS dial.


    Kent,
    Thank You, Argrrrrr! you would think I could type the serial # when in plain view !:mad:
     
  17. burt

    burt Registered User
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    #67 burt, Jan 27, 2013
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Hi Jim,

    Thanks for showing the neat watch and case combination. The 962 ( that one produced 1-3-1898) was certainly a railroad grade watch being fully adjusted with 17 jewels and double roller. I was a little supprised when checking those first purchases in 1895-96 from Hamilton made by Ball being the 932 grade? I know he was first a retail jeweler but he didn't sell those as standard watches to railroaders. When you look at Kent's "posted "add I also expected to see many more orders (6 in a year and a half) from Ball than I found. I guess starting up a business is exactly what it meant to both parties.. It's hard to believe that in a few years that Hamilton's production would sky rocket with the railroad industry.
     
  18. Accujohn

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    I had posted this find recently elsewhere, but I just found this thread... My Oregon Electric Special 926... also a Belding Bros/ Portland Oregon. Both were found in the Portland area... The OE 926 was found in a pawn shop less than a mile from the old OE track!
     

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  19. Tref

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Hi John,
    Can you tell me what that serial number is? I have two others from Belding Bros. documented, a 925, SN 429620 and a 924, SN 482430

    Thanks!
     
  20. Accujohn

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    It is 433416... I had another pic. That watch went to someone who works here in Portland at Union Station... Just a few blocks from where Belding Bros was located. I still miss the watch but it went to an appropriate home. The OE is staying right here, however;)
     
  21. Tref

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Thank you John. Can you tell us what the serial number of your Oregon Electric Special is? I don't have any of those documented yet.
     
  22. Accujohn

    Accujohn Registered User

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    Oh sure, sorry. That one (mine) is 626404. There is only one other that I am aware of... It's the one pictured in the 1979 Timing The Trolleys article. It is 626903 owned by Rhett
     
  23. Rhett Lucke

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    I'm aware of at least 1 other 926 with Oregon Electric Special markings. It is also in a private collection.
     
  24. Accujohn

    Accujohn Registered User

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    Hey there! Is that 3rd one with a member here? Same serial number range?
     
  25. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Serial 121402 ...

    74.jpg

    75.jpg
     
  26. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Serial #570076 ...

    76.jpg

    77.jpg
     
  27. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Pacific Electric's

    I bought one from Rhett and found another one. He had the article which really makes the watch.

    Serial #
    464729
    478032

    These were, according to Luckenback specially adjusted, but no one proved that and may just be regular 926's with a PL dial?
     

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  28. Tref

    Tref Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Thank you Gentlemen, these are some very nice pieces!
     
  29. Rhett Lucke

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    The 3rd example is in the 638K range and is essentially the same as the other two mentioned above. The owner of this 3rd example isn't active on the message board.

    Rhett
     
  30. Accujohn

    Accujohn Registered User

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    Yes, thank you everyone! Glad to see all that have been posted. I will follow...
     
  31. visitor

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Another private label for anyone interested..

    PICT0002.jpg PICT0010.jpg
     
  32. Accujohn

    Accujohn Registered User

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    Very nice! Thank you for adding!
     
  33. Tref

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    We care. Nice watch!

    This is the seventh private label I've seen and documented from this run. Others were from Maine, New Hampshire, Massachusetts, and Pennsylvania. And now Connecticut.

    Just find yourself a suitable case, keep it clean and serviced and you'll be good for another ~120 years! :D
     
  34. HUDD

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    Re: Hamilton - 923 - Imperial Canada

    Add 922 - 102,608 - SS Mermod Jaccard & Co. - Mvt " Standard St. Louis" just acquired.

    Hudd
     
  35. Kent

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    #85 Kent, Aug 27, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 27, 2013
    Re: Hamilton - 923 - Imperial Canada

    Hi HUDD:



    It sounds like a nice watch that you have. Hopefully, you can post some pictures.

    Insofar as the thread that you posted on is about those private label watch movements signed "Imperial Canada," perhaps the moderator will move it (and this reply) to the Hamilton Private Labels thread. Also, it might be helpful if the moderator can add a link to that thread to the first post of the Hamilton Watch Co. threads sticky (unless its already there - in which case I apologize for missing it).

    Kent, OK, I did as you suggested, Thanks
     
  36. HUDD

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    Re: Hamilton - 923 - Imperial Canada

    Hi Kent

    Here is a picture of my 922. It really is in a lovely condition with just a few minor issues that are easilly rectified. H_922_MermodJaccard.jpg
     
  37. Paul Sullivan

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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Willard E. Morse, Danvers Mass. 924, OF, no. 435217, marked "Special". Finished 11-04-05 sold 1-13-06 to Percival Co., Boston, thence, to Morse.

    Willard E. Morse (Hamilton 924 Special) (19).jpg
    Dial in very poor condition, but I liked the fact it was sold to a jeweler not to far from where I live.

    Willard E. Morse (Hamilton 924 Special) (20).jpg
    Attractive movement and runs like a champ.


    Hamilton 924 18s -  435217 ( 1905).JPG

    C.H. Case Co., Hartford Conn. 974 no. 72418. Fin.12/30/1901 sold 1-18-02 Smith North, New York, thence to C.H. Case Co.

    IMG_5441.jpg

    PL 974 1.jpg

    label.JPG

    Paul
     
  38. Kent

    Kent Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton - 923 - Imperial Canada

    Nice watch, thanks for the pictures!


    Paul:

    Also nice watches!
     
  39. Clock Man

    Clock Man Registered User

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    Private Label Hamilton

    Hamilton 924 with J Boss case

    T. G. Dillon & Son
    Wheeling, W. Va.


    (could be J. G.)
     

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  40. Fred Hansen

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    Re: Private Label Hamilton

    Here's some Hamilton private label data I had gathered a few years ago ...

    128 - TF Sherman, New Haven Conn (DS Roman "TF Sherman, New Haven Conn" dial until May 2004)

    487 - A. Kaempfer, Chicago IL (marked dial and movement)

    849 - Carl Rivinus, Ebensburg, Pa (signed mov't, dial signed "Hamilton")

    1224 - W.E. Russell & Co., Minerva O

    1411 - Rovelstad Special (marked movement, "Rovelstad Bros., Elgin Ill" dial)

    2971 - L.E. Hanson, Woburn Mass (marked movement, SS Roman "L.E. Hanson" dial)

    3541 - Made for E.L. Egolf, Harrisburg PA (marked movement, SS Roman "E.L. Egolf" dial)

    3861 - M.V.B. Elson, Freeport Ill (marked movement, DS Roman "M.V.B. Elson" dial)

    4321 - Bernhard Pol, Portland ME (marked movement, "Hamilton Watch Co." dial)

    4493 - G.G. Fellows, Franklin Falls NH (marked dial and movement)

    4591 - L.E. Hanson, Woburn Mass (marked movement, SS Roman "L.E. Hanson" dial)

    4700 - WA England, Worcester MA

    4823 - W. Luther Larue & Co., Pittsfield Mass (marked movement and DS Roman dial)

    4887 - F.A. Richardson, Leominster Mass (marked movement and DS Roman dial)

    5349 - Wm Walcott, Toledo Ohio (marked movement, SS Arabic "Wm. Walcott" dial)

    5468 - E J Haverly, Sayre. Pa (marked movement, DS "Hamilton Watch Co." dial)

    6066 - Main Line, WM Stone, Minneapolis Minn (DS Arabic "Wm Stone, Minneapolis Minn" dial)

    6605 - Smyth Bros., Renova Pa (marked movement)

    6633 - Clark Giddings, Sterling Ill (marked movement, DS Arabic "Hamilton Watch Co." dial)

    7038 - R.P. Sharick, Chicago O. (DS Arabic "R.P. Sharick" dial)

    8023 - American Jewelry Co., Leadville Colo (marked DS Arabic dial only)

    8950 - Rovelstad Special, Elgin IL (DS Roman same dial)

    9311 - Made Expressly For Paul C. Puls, Eau Claire Wis (DS "Hamilton" dial)

    9418 - Fisher & Larsen, La Junta Colo

    10728 - Ingraham Bros., Menomonie Wis

    11274 - J. Ackermann, Phillipsburg NJ (marked movement, DS Arabic dial marked "J. Ackermann")

    12287 - Ullrich Bros., Baraboo Wis. & Evanston Ill (marked movement)

    12564 - Jas. Rollins, Loudonville O (DS Arabic "Jas. Rollins" dial)

    15221 - T.K. Smith Jewelry House, Oskaloosa Iowa (marked movement and DS Arabic dial)

    16515 - M.J. & Co.'s Railroad Watch, St. Louis MO (marked movement, DS Roman "Mermod & Jaccard Jewelry Co., St. Louis MO" dial)

    17054 - McClintock & Warren, Garretsville O (SS Arabic "McClintock & Warren" dial)

    18033 - The Montrose, E.H. True (marked movement)

    18232 - C.H. Case & Co., Hartford Conn. (marked dial and movement)

    18951 - Wheeler's Jewelry Store, Rutland, VT (marked movement and dial)

    19183 - Merritt Barnes, Avoca Iowa (marked on grade 930 movement, SS Roman dial also with the same markings)

    19268 - R. Ashby, Colorado Springs Colo (SS Arabic "Ashby" dial)

    19275 - James G. Martin, Wilkes Barre PA (marked movement, SS Roman "James G. Martin" dial)

    19519 - A.B. Bruneau, Special (DS Arabic "A.B. Bruneau, Fall River Mass" dial)

    19933 - Central City, Syracuse NY (SS Arabic "Central City" dial)

    19941 - N.H. Knowles, Humboldt Iowa (marked SS Roman dial only)

    20073 - James G. Martin, Wilkes Barre PA (marked movement, DS Roman "James G. Martin" dial)

    20108 - C.H. Case & Co., Hartford Conn (DS Roman same dial)

    21371 - Anderton & Eberhardt, Dayton Ohio (dial and mvmnt)

    21499 - Chas. Stapper, Denver Colo (marked movement and DS Roman dial)

    22501 - H.H. Mollencup, Defiance O (marked SS Roman dial only)

    23090 - Ezra F. Bowman, Lancaster PA

    23173 - H.Y. Pike & Co., White River Jct. VT (marked dial only)

    24410 - B.B. Perkins & Co. (Marked movement only)

    24516 - Thomas J. Morrow, Holyoke Mass (DS Arabic "Thomas J. Morrow Special" dial)

    24534 – George E. Wilkins, Syracuse NY (marked movement and dial)

    24580 - Frank J. Voirol, Extra, Fort Wayne IN

    24932 - H.C. Kachlein, La Fayette Ind. (marked movement, DS Roman "H.C. Kachlein" dial)

    25048 - Constant, St. Louis

    25494 - Ausman Special, St. Mary's Ohio

    25667 - B. Overstreet, Farmer City Ill (movement and DS dial)

    27140 - EH Clopper, Polo IL

    27541 - Oscar W. Heiserman, West Union Iowa (SS Roman same dial)

    27601 - W.F. Plambeck, Denver Colo (SS Roman same dial)

    27778 - C.B. Laub, Cresco Iowa (marked SS Roman dial only)

    27927 - J. Brandell, Anoka Minn (marked movement and SS Roman dial)

    29631 - Shaible Bros., Troy O (DS Roman "Shaible Bros. dial)

    29688 - A.C. Hanger, Des Moines IA (marked DS Roman dial only)

    32132 - Ed Castor, Waseca Minn (marked movement and dial)

    32301 - Hermon E. French, Hudson Mass (marked movement and SS Roman dial)

    32343 - Tom Morris Special, Crookston, Minn (marked movement, DS Roman "Tom Morris Special" dial)

    32423 - E.E. Cheney, Nashua NH (marked movement, DS Arabic "Hamilton Watch Co." dial)

    32617 - W.H. Heath, South Braintree Mass (marked movement and SS Arabic dial)

    32819 - Harvey Fritz, Oil City PA (DS Arabic same dial)

    32939 - L. Kimball & Sons, Haverhill Mass (DS Roman same dial)

    33106 - H. Harman, Fairfax MO (marked movement)

    33432 - Made Expressly for C.H. Nerbovig, Mapleton Minn (SS Roman "C.H. Nerbovig" dial)

    33832 - Jos. Coleman, Special, Massilon O

    34418 - C.P. Forbes, Greenfield Mass (marked movement and SS Arabic dial)

    34517 - J.C. Gray, Cortland NY (marked movement)

    34623 - CF Dunbar Co., Wausau Wis (marked movement and dial)

    34633 - Frank Dyer, Caro Mich (marked movement and SS Roman dial)

    34905 - JF Safford & Son

    34925 - Harvey Fritz, Oil City Pa

    34941 - J. Wetherell & Son, Parkersburg W.Va. (marked movement and dial)

    35447 - O.D. Leidal, Fergus Falls. Minn (marked movement, SS Roman "O.D. Leidal" dial)

    35475 – G.W. Badger, Girard PA (marked SS Roman dial only)

    35832 - T.W. Gurley, Meyersdale PA (DS Roman "Gurley's Special" dial before 2006)

    36040 - O.D. Leidel (marked movement, "Hamilton" dial)

    36159 - J.F. Butler, Potsdam NY (marked on SS dial only, factory marked mvmnt)

    36216 - C. R. Tschumy Oak Harbor, O. (marked movement, SS Roman "C.R. Tschumy" dial)

    36420 - A. Bringe, Milwaukee WI (SS Roman same dial)

    36911 - Chas. L. Tyler, Ipswich Mass (marked movement, SS Roman "Chas. L. Tyler"
     
  41. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Hamilton

    Thanks Fred for that Information, I know how many years it took to gather that research and thanks for being so unselfish and sharling it.
    _______________________________________________________________________________________________________

    This is a cool one any cop would want to have in his collection.


    Serial # 677665, Jean R. Tack, Newark, N.J.

    Most likely a presentation wach to a female in the office, I don't think they had many women cops in 1910.

    This was listed as sold to Hayden W. Wheeler on 7-9-1910, one of Hamilton's biggest agents.
     

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  42. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    This is an early 936 for B.B. Perkins & Co through Agent Albert Walker, Providence, R.I.on 10-7-1897

    Serial # 8961
     

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  43. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    #93 Jim Haney, Oct 29, 2013
    Last edited: Oct 29, 2013
    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    I have tried and tried to get an Indian territory watch and my Friend John LeCambria sold this one to me.

    940 Fred McIntyre Indian Terrirory. Sold through Agent Eisenstadt Mfg. Co. St. Louis 12-14-1900.

    For all you wanted to know and then some, see Tom's link.

    http://www.awco.org/MWCo/index.htm
     

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  44. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Congrats Jim, great one for your collection!
     
  45. Tref

    Tref Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Hamilton

    Jean is one of those names that is used for both men and women. Not to be argumentative, but in 1910 I would think it would be more likely to belong to a male detective than a female. Especially given the large presence of American families of French-Canadian descent on the East Coast. Remember Jean Valjean? And Jean LaFoote?

    Thanks for the info on these!
     
  46. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Hamilton

    ...
     
  47. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    #97 Fred Hansen, Oct 29, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2013
    Re: Private Label Hamilton

    Jean R Tack was a man and a jeweler in Newark. Partway down this page there's a photo and some info on him ...


    http://books.google.com/books?id=cNgDAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA497&lpg=PA497&dq=%22jean+r+tack%22&source=bl&ots=vl6uXHHJ0R&sig=R2kU5NpejfaIkBsx5kE67paHW6E&hl=en&sa=X&ei=1EBwUp2vPIryyAHW74CABA&ved=0CDEQ6AEwAw

    I've seen one or two other "Newark Police Special" besides Jim's example here and they were marked the exact same on dial and movement, so apparently Tack supplied these for the Newark police. It would be great to find some documentation specifically describing what officers these watches were made for and why they were given.



    Edit by Jim Haney, What do I know! Thanks for clarifing the name, Jean/ Gene
     
  48. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Private Label Hamilton

    Serial 111153, DS dial marked "C.M. & St.P. Ry Standard"


    161.jpg


    162.jpg






    These dial letters are abbreviation for the Chicago Milwaukee & St. Paul Railway.


    I've seen a few other grade 936 and 937 with this same C.M. & St.P. Ry Standard dial. I've also seen a 939 with a C.M. & St.P. Ry Special dial.
     
  49. watchwinder

    watchwinder Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    here is a Columbia time service from Kaslo B.C. Canada .jpg columbia time service.jpg kaslo.jpg movement.jpg serial.jpg strath.jpg
     
  50. Fred Hansen

    Fred Hansen Registered User
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    Re: Hamilton Private Labels, Pleasse add to the list

    Terrific rare watch there! Serial #44723 is its twin with the exact same movement and dial.
     

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