Hamilton movement Identification

[balancewheel]

Hello,

I have bought a Hamilton watch with serial 562908 withe 17 jewels. The movement is marked as Grand Trunc Pacific and not Hamilton. The dial is marked with A Ross & Co and in the second line Port Arthur, Ont.

I think its a model 924 from 1907. On the movement I can not informations about adjustments.

About Grand Trunk Pacifc
URL #1 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Trunk_Pacific_Railway
URL #2 http://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.com/index.cfm?PgNm=TCE&Params=A1ARTA0003379
URL #3 http://www.scripophily.net/grantrunrail.html


The second watch is marked Hamilton, 21 jewels, adjusted and the serial number is 468704. I think its a 940 from 1905.

In both cases the movements are in good conditions, but the cases are very poor.

Are this Informations correct? Maybe somebody have additional Informations?

I have attached some pictures. But they are low quality. If you are interested I can create more professional.

Thank you for any responses.

Thomas


/edit: Maybe somebody knows a Online Database for Hamilton like the Waltham and Elgin Databases for research?

 

[Rhett Lucke]

Thomas,

As you suspected, your watch marked "Grand Trunk, Pacific" is definately a Hamilton grade 924. Your watch however, falls into a very collectible category of Private label Hamilton's with railroad associated markings.

Over the years, Hamilton (and other manufacturers) offered many of their watches to retailers with private label movements or dials at little or no cost (depending on size of order). In most cases, these retailers would simply have the name of the jeweler or retailer put in place of Hamilton on the dial and/or movement. In a relately small number of cases however, the retailer would have watches made with markings meant to capitalize on an association with the local railroad. As mentioned before, these watches with railroad or railroad associated markings have become very desirable to many of us collectors.

If possible, I would be very interested in seeing any addiltional pictures of both the movement and dial of your watch.

The second watch is a much more common grade 940. The 940 was probably Hamilton's most common 18's railroad grade movement.

Regards,

Rhett

 

[Tom McIntyre]

Thomas, there is an on-line database similar to the Elgin and Waltham databases but it is restricted to NAWCC members and is currently under development.

Eventually, there will be informaiton from watch observations on private labels. Currently, there is on-line access to the existing Hamilton Ledgers and information from the publication Lasser's List.

 

[Kent]

A No. 924, serial number 557467, is reported to have its dial marked "Grand Trunk Pacific" but no mention of the movement marking.

 

[balancewheel]

Hello,

thank you for any responses.

I have found the Grand Trunk Pacific labeled watch on ebay. The seller have bought this and 60 other from the son of a died collector.

The (AWWCo) case of the watch shows a scratched signature and the Name of a village in the north of Oldenburg, Germany. I think its the Name of the died collector. I have no information how the watch turn to germany. The case show that the watch was used many years. But the movement is in very good conditions. Its now running 3 days and keeping time.

I have attached better pictures from the Grand Trunk Pacific labeled pocket watch.

Maybe these model 924 Grand Trunk Pacific labeled watches was used by GTP employes who did not need time exactly (like stewars, cleaner etc.)? Or maybe this watch did not was a official watches from this railroad companys (GTP is also not written to the dial)?
Maybe this watch just was like a souvenier for passengers or inofficial organiced by the workers with strong identification with here employer? Maybe somebody have a idea about?


@Tom McIntyre
Thank you for this information.


Thomas

 

[balancewheel]

the other Hamilton

 

[balancewheel]

Maybe these model 924 Grand Trunk Pacific labeled watches was used by GTP employes who did not need time exactly (like stewards, cleaner etc.)? Or maybe this watch did not was a official watches from this railroad companys (GTP is also not written to the dial)?
Maybe this watch just was like a souvenir for passengers or inofficial organiced by the workers with strong identification with here employer? Maybe somebody have a idea about?

Hello,

on top of these quoted section I have forgotten a sentence in my original posting. I will deliver now, so the rest got more sense:

I have researched, that the 924 was delivered without any "official" adjustemts. This is very interesting, because this watch show the label of a railroad company and in this industry keeping time exactly was very important.

Thomas

 

[Kent]

Thomas:

I don't have any railroad time service rules for the Grand Trunck Pacific, but since 1898 when the time service rules were put in effect on the Grand Truank Railway (the Grand Trunck Pacific"s parent company), watches used in time service had to have been at least adjusted to temperature.

Of your suppositions, the thought that the Grand Trunck Pacific marked No. 924 watches may have been used by employes who didn't fall under the time service rules sounds the most likely.

 

[Rhett Lucke]

Thomas,

As Kent mentioned, it is possible that these and other similarly marked watches were sold to railroad employees who were engaged in occupations that did not require watches that met railroad service requirements. It is also feasible that these type of watches might have also been sold to non railroad employees who desired a "railroad quality" watch.

In checking my records, I've recorded a number of Hamilton's, of various grades, with Grand Trunk associated markings on the dial and/or movement. These include a grade 936 marked "Grand Trunk Pacific" on both the dial and movement as well as well as a grade 940 marked "Grand Trunk Pacific, Special Time Service" on both the dial and movement. Your watch is the first grade 924 I've recorded. I've also recorded a single sunk dial marked G.T.P. Special, which may also be a reference to the subject railroad.

Thanks again for sharing the information and photo's of your watch. It is always exciting to see a new find and each example helps to piece together the story on these watches with railroad associated markings.

Rhett