American PW Hamilton 999P BAll Watch

[Grant Perry]

Hello,
Happy holidays.
I am in the process of restoring a Ball Hamilton 999P B650690. I need to find a balance staff and a lower balance hole jewel. Would someone be able to suggest where I may find these items?
Thank you in advance,
Grant

 

[Randy Beamer]

Hello Grant, and Happy Holidays to you as well
Brian Cavanaugh's name comes up frequently for requests such as yours. I've purchased from him in the past.
He's a good source for American Pocket watch parts: pwpartsetc@pwatch.com

Randy

 

[Grant Perry]

Hi Randy,
Thank you for your quick reply. Brian has been my go to guy for parts for many years, but unfortunately he does not have much info on the Ball watches.
From an earlier posting Jim Haney noted that the parts are were 16s 3/4 plate Hamilton so a Hamilton 16s size balance jewel would be fine. If this is so, I guess I require the part numbers for the lower hole jewel as well as for the balance staff.
Thanks again,
Grant

 

[Randy Beamer]

Grant,
Looks like your watch was a variant of the 992 B movement ( info from other posts ). If so, the lower and upper balance jewel numbers are the same-624
The staff s/b -659
Info is from my 1951 Hamilton watch materials catalogue.

That said,..you may also want to read this previous thread..just for safety in ordering.
The staffs may be different ??
American PW - Hamilton 999P BAll Watch

Hope this helps !
Randy

 

[Grant Perry]

Hi Randy, It could be; however the 992B has the endstone cap on the lower balance and the 999P is a typical two piece jewel setting...if that makes sense.
I suspect that it may be a different part than the one required for a 992B...
Grant

 

[Jim Haney]

Grant,
Doesn't make sense to me because the upper & lower Balance jewels have a hole and cap jewel..... so what do you mean?
The upper Cap is large and is a Gold setting. The lower cap is just held in the plate with screws and is the same size as the hole jewel.

 

[Grant Perry]

Hi Jim,
Sorry about that. This is where my ignorance confuses people Let me try and explain more clearly.
The 999P that I am working on has a cracked and chipped lower balance hole jewel. The lower cap jewel seems to be okay. Both the hole jewel and the cap jewel are in round settings.
The 992B has a round hole jewel, but the cap jewel is in an oblong setting. The Swigart parts catalogue calls the cap jewel an endstone cap. This makes me wonder if the hole jewel from a 992B would work.
Does that make sense?
Thank you,
Grant

 

[Randy Beamer]

Grant..Did some additional research on the staff. In my old Marshall Handy Manual it lists p/n 607048 for the 16s 999B solid balance double roller configuration. Pivot size is 11.
I have one.
I also have the 607041 for the 16s split balance configurations, but it doesn't list that specifically for the 999 models.just the 992's. That pivot is also 11. You can have them if they would help.
Randy

 

[Jim Haney]

Grant,
Please take a pic of the lower cap jewel, I believe it is round in the setting . The oblong strip is for the pallet and escape wheel on a 992B.

 

[Grant Perry]

Hi Jim and Randy,
Thank you for your help. It is greatly appreciated. Randy, I'll hold off on the B/S until we are sure as I don't want to deplete your stock if it isn't the correct one.
Here are the pictures of the jewel settings for the 992B and 999P.

 

[Jim Haney]

Grant,
Thanks for the pic's. You can use a hole & cap jewel from a regular 992 for the 999P.

 

[Randy Beamer]

Sounds good Grant. Looks like Jim nailed it on the jewels. Interesting that on the 992, they used cap "strips" to encase the escape wheel, pallet fork and balance jewels instead of the more traditional gold chatons used in the 999. But I get Jim's point here...the jewel sizes don't change, just the "holder" is different. So if I get this right, you'll have to press the old jewel out of the gold chaton, and press a new one in. You'll want to measure the depth so the end-shake comes out the same ?
For the staff,..do you have a way to measure the dimensions of the broken one ( whatever's remaining ?). I can then verify what I have to see if we have a match !

Randy

 

[Jim Haney]

Randy,
The replacements jewel have the setting, either brass or gold, made around the jewel, so he will not have to press the jewel in the setting. The newer 992B used the cap strips like in the 1st picture in post #10. These were the Ball series of 999B's.

Grants watch # 650069 was in almost the last series on Ball's 999P (last run 655200) and these Ball's were based on the regular 992.

About 95% of the Hamilton parts will will work. Ball only changed some hairspring studs Regulator springs and in some, the staffs.

The Hamilton parts # are 245041 cap and 251042 Hole, which is the same as the escape hole jewel also.

So, if you have a 992 parts movement you can just push them out and reinstall in your 999P.

 

[Grant Perry]

Hi Randy and Jim,
Thanks again. Jim or Randy, are you able to tell me what the balance staff part number is?
Thank you!
Grant

 

[Jim Haney]

The Hamilton part number is :

607040 DR Large Collet Pivot 10
607041 DR Small Collet Pivot 11
607042 DR Small Collet Pivot 12

So you need to measure your old staff for Pivot & Collet size.

You can adjust the pivot size by reducing them with a fine stone.

If you don't have a donor movement or the correct size donor, I have all of these if you need them.

 

[Grant Perry]

Hi Jim,
Thanks again.
I took some measurements of the balance staff. the top of the staff has a diameter of .76mm and the bottom is 1.10mm. The measurement of the pivot seems to be .12. Does this help to narrow it down?

 

[Dave Coatsworth]

Looks to be the 607042.

 

[Grant Perry]

Thank you Dave. I noticed that the materials typically refer to a large collet or a small collet; however I was not able to find the dimensions of either to determine whether the watch has a small or large collet. Is there a reference guide that provides the dimensions of the staff?

 

[Randy Beamer]

Thanks for the education Jim,..really appreciate it
Best regards,

Randy

Randy,
The replacements jewel have the setting, either brass or gold, made around the jewel, so he will not have to press the jewel in the setting. The newer 992B used the cap strips like in the 1st picture in post #10. These were the Ball series of 999B's.

Grants watch # 650069 was in almost the last series on Ball's 999P (last run 655200) and these Ball's were based on the regular 992.

About 95% of the Hamilton parts will will work. Ball only changed some hairspring studs Regulator springs and in some, the staffs.

The Hamilton parts # are 245041 cap and 251042 Hole, which is the same as the escape hole jewel also.

So, if you have a 992 parts movement you can just push them out and reinstall in your 999P.

 

[Dave Coatsworth]

American staff sizes...

 

[Grant Perry]

Great resource Dave. Thank you very much.

 

[EEG]

Hello All,,
Can someone tell me ,what does the P stand for on a Ball Hamilton 999P ??
Thanks,
Retired B&O Railroader,,,Eric

 

[Jim Haney]

Eric,
Read the introduction to these charts posted by Member Rhett Lucke.

Bookmark for reference for future use, this is valuable and hard to get information.

Hamilton Ball Serial Numbers & Grade Descriptions (Original research by Art Zimmerla and Walter Kroenker)

 

[EEG]

THANK YOU Jim !! This is a KEEPER !! I did file this as you suggested.
Only BEST Regards and Thanks Again,
Retired B&O Railroader,
Eric