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Hamilton 2974B Research Project

Rhett Lucke

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I have started working on a project to document and define the various markings used on the earliest Hamilton 2974B runs. To move forward with this project, I would like to request the following information on any watches in the K001-K2400 serial range:

1. Serial Number
2. Is movement marked “Elinvar”. If so, where is marking located?
3. Does movement have Govt markings (i.e. US Navy, BU Ships, US, Govt. etc…). If so, what markings are present and where are they located?

I would also be interested in receiving serial numbers and descriptions on any of the very early watches from this run which may be marked “974B”.

Any and all help would be much appreciated. Pictures or information can be posted here or sent to me privately at rrstd@yahoo.com

Regards,

Rhett
 

lak611

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rrstd said:
I have started working on a project to document and define the various markings used on the earliest Hamilton 2974B runs. To move forward with this project, I would like to request the following information on any watches in the K001-K2400 serial range:

1. Serial Number
2. Is movement marked “Elinvar”. If so, where is marking located?
3. Does movement have Govt markings (i.e. US Navy, BU Ships, US, Govt. etc…). If so, what markings are present and where are they located?

I would also be interested in receiving serial numbers and descriptions on any of the very early watches from this run which may be marked “974B”.

Any and all help would be much appreciated. Pictures or information can be posted here or sent to me privately at rrstd@yahoo.com

Regards,

Rhett
This linkClick Here might be of interest to you.
 

Fred Hansen

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Hi Rhett -

Here's a few from the Jones-Horan archives ...

K449 ... marked "2974B", marked "U.S. Navy Bu. Ships" on barrel bridge, not marked Elinvar

K807 ... marked "2974B", marked "U.S. Navy Bu. Ships" on train bridge, not marked Elinvar

K830 ... marked "2974B", marked "U.S. Navy Bu. Ships" on train bridge, not marked Elinvar

Fred

p.s. Do you have any interest in examples at 2K serial ranges?
 

Rhett Lucke

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Thanks Fred,

I had not thought about going through the old Jones-Horan archives.

At this time, my interest is primarily on the "K" serial numbers.
 

Ralph Porter

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Hi Rhett,
Here's the data for mine, I'll send some pic's as soon as I can get my scanner to cooperate.

SN: K1386 the numbers are smaller than normal.

The movement is not marked "Elinvar".

The government marking is on smaller plate to the right of the lower case screw. It reads, "U. S. NAVY" and below that "BU. SHIPS", both located between the two plate screws. Along the left edge of that plate it reads, "2974 B" and then "17 Jewels".

It is marked "Hamilton Watch Co. U.S.A." just above the lower case screw, and marked "Adj. Temp And 3 Pos." just above the center wheel jewel, both generally paralleling the right edge of the main plate.

The watch is in a Keystone Base Metal case. The back is marked "BUREAU OF SHIPS" in an arc at the top, then "U.S. NAVY" and "COMPARING WATCH" in two lines and below that, "NO. 1606-1941". The case also has an inside snap-on dust cover.

The dial has the stylized RR track around the main dial and seconds register. The hands the spade and pointer typical of the 992B rather than the baton style commonly seen on this watch.

I hope this helps,
Ralph
 

Fred Hansen

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Another serial number from the Jones-Horan archives ...

K1576 ... marked "2974B", marked "U.S. Navy Bu. Ships" on train bridge, not marked Elinvar

And with permission from Jones-Horan auction, here are some of their past 2974B photos for comparison of a few different movement marking variants. And Rhett isn't recording them in this project, but just to illustrate different markings I've included two with 2K serial prefixes here ...

http://www.jones-horan.com/images/0403/sm21_c.jpg

http://www.jones-horan.com/images/0504/jm7_c.jpg

http://www.jones-horan.com/images/0502/ac16_c.jpg

56.jpg

Fred
 

Rhett Lucke

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Still looking for examples of these early 2974B and 974B's to add to my research database.

Rhett
 

josbern

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Dec 19, 2008
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:cool:Hi Rhett, My Hamilton 2974B details:

On barrel bridge Hamilton On Base plate K1571
Watch co.
USA

Between centre wheel & crown wheel:

Adj
Temp and
3 pos On 4th wheel and escapement wheel bridge 2974B
17 Jewels
U.S. Navy
Bu Ships
 

swansongfan

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Hi, i just posted a comment on the hamilton sidereal time thread about sidereal hamilton buships comparing watches that i have in sidereal time. This may interest you. They have been a mystery to me so far. Best, mark;)
 

Gmartin

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i have a hamilton electric railway special on dial works nice the rest just has me confused as to what it is. says gold filled and 974 serial 1699079 any info would be appreciated
 

Kent

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i have a hamilton electric railway special on dial works nice the rest just has me confused as to what it is. says gold filled and 974 serial 1699079 any info would be appreciated
Hi Gmartin:

Welcome to the NAWCC American Pocket Watch Message Board!

This thread on Hamilton electric railroad dials, entitled "Hamilton interurban" explains the subject in detail.

Perhaps the moderator can move your question and my response to the bottom of that thread, since they are an entirely different subject than the Hamilton 2974B.
 

Rhett Lucke

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Thanks for the continued reporting.

To clarify however, my main interest in this project is with those 2974B's with serial numbers starting with "K". Those in the "2K" range fall outside the scope of my current interest.

Rhett
 

LarFure

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I just received this 2974B in the mail today. The one thing I noticed,when I disassembled it,was that the pillar plate is brass. Not nickle finish. Was that common? Anyways,I'll post a few picture for you to look at.
 

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Jim Haney

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Thanks for posting this one, very odd for sure.

What is the serial number K:???:, which would make it about the 600th or 800th, I can read the number, made.
 

Jim Haney

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Larry,
They made the first run of 2400 starting 4-18-1940 and finished 8-28-1941, so somewhere in that date/order?
 

Watchfixer

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Could be a urgency situation in the WWII to skip some plating on the plates and go raw brass? This is no different with travel clocks and low end pin pallet movements.

PS: I have a quirk, I won another basket-case waltham nickel plate dask pattern (1883 model broken staff, missing stud screw, broken leaf on safety pinion and slightly mashed teeth on barrel, broken EW pivot.) One of dial feet screw is cut twice, one off center, and other cut on center like a X slots.

Cheers, Watchfixer
 

Jim Haney

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PS: I have a quirk, I won another basket-case waltham nickel plate dask pattern (1883 model broken staff, missing stud screw, broken leaf on safety pinion and slightly mashed teeth on barrel, broken EW pivot.) One of dial feet screw is cut twice, one off center, and other cut on center like a X slots.

Cheers, Watchfixer
Watchfixer,

Please keep the post on TOPIC.

Please do not inject a different watch in a existing post on another watch.:rolleyes:

You should start another post if you want to discuss the Waltham.

It is no big deal to file another grove in a screw head for a screwdriver if the original is worn out?
 

LarFure

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I took a few pictures of the pillar plate of the 2974B I mentioned in another thread. After looking at it closely it appears that someone had gold flashed the plate. At least I think it's gold. I wonder if this was done at the factory,or by some watchmaker who had worked on it in the past? You decide.

Anyway,in one picture you can see that nickle showing in the lower balance jewel cut out. As I said earlier the top of the cap jewel is coated,and the under side is steel. You can also see where the coating had built up on the jewel setting on the fourth wheel jewel. The other jewels look similar. Then there is a close-up picture of the mainspring barrel well where the plating was rubbed off a little over time. It isn't very much and is hard to make out.
 

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Larry Treiman

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Re: Pictures of 2974B pillar plate. (Brass?)

Great photos and info!! This helps clear up the mystery for the most part, though there are still unanswered questions.

It is important that this new information be kept together with the photos that you posted previously in rrstd's 2974B research thread. Larry Treiman
 
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Rhett Lucke

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Larfure,

Thanks for posting the additional pictures of your watch.

When originally listed for auction, two concerns kept me from bidding:

1. Originality of the brass or plated piller plate. Your subsequent posting and pictures seem to indicate plating, which I would tend to agree - is likely post production.

2. Lack of gov't or military markings. To date, this is the first "K" series 2974B example I've seen or recorded without "U.S. Navy, Bu Ships" or "U.S. Gov't" markings on either the train or barrel bridge. This makes me at least a bit suspicious whether one or more of the these plates might be from a later "2K" watch. Unfortunately, Hamilton stopped serialization of these component parts with the "B" program,which makes confirmation of original parts much more difficult.

I would be very interested in others thoughts as well.


Rhett
 

LarFure

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Is it a fact that "all" 2974Bs were made for the USN and only the USN? I'd think that some other branch of the government might have had use for these watches.
 

Rhett Lucke

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Still looking for pics / descriptions of more examples of 2974B's with with serial numbers starting with "K".

Thanks.
 

Jim Haney

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To add to this 10 year old project K703 with U.S. Navy BU. Ships markings.

Case is marked as usual but has NO.774-1940. Has the DS # 532 dial.

DSCN6165.JPG DSCN6167.JPG DSCN6165.JPG DSCN6167.JPG DSCN6166.JPG DSCN6168.JPG
 

Jim Haney

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Picked this up this weekend at the Southern Ohio Regional in Wilmington,by accident. It was in a box of close outs sale with old sticker labels all over the dial & Case and was marked 992B so this would fall into the Blind Squirrel saying...............($175)

These were in the 1st run "K", K001-K2400. Some of them have Elinvar on the plate and some have US Navy Bu Ship

Hamilton used the 950E Double Sunk #532 dials on these...

DSCN5131.JPG DSCN5132.JPG DSCN5133.JPG DSCN5129.JPG DSCN5128.JPG DSCN5127.JPG DSCN5130.JPG
 
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Rhett Lucke

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Thanks Jim. Nice find. It was great seeing you and your better half at the Wilmington Regional this week.
 

Jim Haney

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This is serial # K2309 ,which was in the 1st Runs of these War watches,

This one has the additional marking if 'Elinvar" which is quite rare.


I have had this watch for several years and bought it in a Gold filled dress case.

I found a Military case this weekend at the Chattanooga MidSouth Regional.

The case is fine however it is a little different from the Factory case which were marked US Navy Comparing Watch on the back cover.

DSCN5526.JPG DSCN5527.JPG DSCN5529.JPG DSCN5532.JPG DSCN5533.JPG DSCN5525.JPG
 

PapaLouies

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Picked this up this weekend at the Southern Ohio Regional in Wilmington,by accident. It was in a box of close outs sale with old sticker labels all over the dial & Case and was marked 992B so this would fall into the Blind Squirrel saying...............($175)

These were in the 1st run "K", K001-K2400. Some of them have Elinvar on the plate and some have US Navy Bu Ship

Hamilton used the 950E Double Sunk #532 dials on these...

View attachment 657790 View attachment 657791 View attachment 657792 View attachment 657793 View attachment 657794 View attachment 657795 View attachment 657796
Could it be that 2974B, S/N K677 proceeded the 992B with the Elinvar Extra hairspring.
Regards, P/L
 

Jim Haney

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I don't think so, when I look up these early numbers they were finished and sold in Nov.1941 about a year after the 992B was introduced.
 
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