Hamburg Strikes Correctly But Minute Hand Stays 10 Min Fast

[Vint]

I have a nice 1901 Hamburg American clock that strikes at the correct hour but the minute hand is 10 minutes fast. Despite moving the minute hand back to the time the clock strikes it continues to be 10 minutes. I’m not sure how to correct this situation. Any help or suggestions is most appreciated. Thanks

 

[kinsler33]

Check the minute hand to see if the square hole is punched through a brass bushing which can, with difficulty, be rotated with respect to the hand. If it's there but is seized in place, don't turn it with too much force--the remedy is to heat the brass bushing to red heat and then let it cool, which will anneal the brass and release its grip on the steel hand. However you do it, rotate that bushing so that the minute hand points correctly when the strike starts. It generally takes several tries to get it right.

Mark Kinsler

 

[kinsler33]

I say that if you're going to offer suggestions, offer them in quadruplicate, harrumph.

(I have utterly no idea how this happened.)

M Kinsler

 

[SuffolkM]

Hi Vint,

Do you happen to have a photo of the front plate on this clock? If it's got a minute wheel with a detent (lifts a flirt arm) then this can be adjusted to change the position of the minute hand independently. Happy to help you with this if you have the pics.

Michael

 

[Vint]

Check the minute hand to see if the square hole is punched through a brass bushing which can, with difficulty, be rotated with respect to the hand. If it's there but is seized in place, don't turn it with too much force--the remedy is to heat the brass bushing to red heat and then let it cool, which will anneal the brass and release its grip on the steel hand. However you do it, rotate that bushing so that the minute hand points correctly when the strike starts. It generally takes several tries to get it right.

Mark Kinsler

No problem here. I tend to blame the pandemic for questionable incidents,lol!
getting ready to go look at what you’ve described herein as I’m not sure what you mean by punched hole...I will keep you informed. Thnx

 

[Vint]

Hi Vint,

Do you happen to have a photo of the front plate on this clock? If it's got a minute wheel with a detent (lifts a flirt arm) then this can be adjusted to change the position of the minute hand independently. Happy to help you with this if you have the pics.

Michael

Thank you . I will certainly look at this and let you know. I do appreciate your help!

 

[Simon Holt]

I’m not sure what you mean by punched hole...

Here's a typical example: front side:

Back side:

The 'punched hole' referred to is the square hole for the minute shaft. You can see that the hole is in a brass piece that 'sandwiches' the steel hand. The brass piece is not glued, or soldered, nor in any other way fixed to the hand, so it can be rotated, thus changing the position of the minute hand with respect to the square shaft, thereby allowing you to set the point at which the strike occurs.

Simon

 

[Vint]

Thank you . I will certainly look at this and let you know. I do appreciate your help!

Here are two pics I hope help. Thanks again

Here's a typical example: front side:
View attachment 640765
Back side:
View attachment 640766
The 'punched hole' referred to is the square hole for the minute shaft. You can see that the hole is in a brass piece that 'sandwiches' the steel hand. The brass piece is not glued, or soldered, nor in any other way fixed to the hand, so it can be rotated, thus changing the position of the minute hand with respect to the square shaft, thereby allowing you to set the point at which the strike occurs.

Simon

Thank you . I will certainly look at this and let you know. I do appreciate your help!

Thank you . I will certainly look at this and let you know. I do appreciate your help!
[/QUOTE
Here are 3 pics. I don’t have the brass insert into the minute hand. I have wondered why a portion of the center shaft has a flat area which now tells me it must be for the minute hand brass insert that Simon mentions

 

[tracerjack]

Your minute hand has an oblong cutout to fit over the same shape at the end of the center arbor. Your minute hand never had a brass piece. The only thing I can think of is that the center lifting cam was removed at some point and improperly replaced, or it has simply shifted on its own over the course of the clock’s long life. You can check by putting the minute hand back on, turn it to the half or hour and verify the position of the center lifting cam’s “arms”. The lifter should be able to drop off the arm as the minute hand reaches the hour/ half hour.

 

[Vint]

Thank you . I will certainly look at this and let you know. I do appreciate your help!

When the clock chimes on the hour it’s always 10 minutes early. Merely moving the minute hand to the 12 doesn’t work as when it strikes again 60 minutes later the minute hand will be on the 10. 30 minutes later at the half hour it strikes when the minute hand is on the 4.
I’m stumped....

 

[Simon Holt]

Is that even the correct hand? The shaft for the minute hand looks square in your photograph, and I wouldn't expect to find an oblong hole in a minute hand that is meant to fit on a square shaft.

Simon

 

[shutterbug]

I think Simon is correct. It looks like someone replaced the minute hand with the wrong kind. Look for a similar hand that is bushed.

 

[tracerjack]

When the clock chimes on the hour it’s always 10 minutes early. Merely moving the minute hand to the 12 doesn’t work as when it strikes again 60 minutes later the minute hand will be on the 10. 30 minutes later at the half hour it strikes when the minute hand is on the 4.
I’m stumped....

The minute hand doesn't cause the strike to happen, this cam on the same shaft does which I point out in the photo. Nothing you do with the hand will change when the strike happens.

In the same photo, I see a rectangular end with a round tip for the minute hand, not a square. I would expect a square on a movement like this, so the poster will need to verify which it is.

 

[Vint]

I think Simon is correct. It looks like someone replaced the minute hand with the wrong kind. Look for a similar hand that is bushed.

The hand fits snug and there isn’t a bit of play. Sure feels like it is the correct one. Why do you think the cannon pinion has a flat groove on two sides? I’m sending another pic to show the hour friction held hand and how it slides over the cannon pinion covering the grooves.

 

[JimmyOz]

In the photos I see a spring attached to the lifting lever, is that being lifted instead of the lever itself, therefore setting off the strike early? I can't see where the spring is supposed to be as it does not look to have a purpose where it is at the moment.

 

[tracerjack]

The hour and minute hands are irrelevant to your problem of the clock striking consistently 10 minutes early. And so are the grooves on the cannon pinion. JimmyOz may have found your problem if the spring is tripping the strike or causing the lifter to activate before it should. Since it appears to be simply a helper spring, you could remove it and see if that clears up the problem. If that is the problem, the spring may need to be reformed to work properly.

 

[Vint]

The hour and minute hands are irrelevant to your problem of the clock striking consistently 10 minutes early. And so are the grooves on the cannon pinion. JimmyOz may have found your problem if the spring is tripping the strike or causing the lifter to activate before it should. Since it appears to be simply a helper spring, you could remove it and see if that clears up the problem. If that is the problem, the spring may need to be reformed to work properly.
View attachment 641010

I’ll look at this. Thank you. I mentioned in another post that I’ve had the movement in the test stand all day and it faithfully strikes the hour at 20 minutes past the hour and strikes once at the half hour 10 minutes before the hour....faithfully,lol.

 

[JimmyOz]

You can just bend that spring up or down to get it out of the way and see what happens, I think the spring should be on top of the lifting lever as there is no other reason for it to be there.

 

[Tim Orr]

Good evening, Vint!

At least the strikes are half an hour apart! That's a start. I agree with Jimmy that it could be that spring on the lower end of the lifting lever. In fact, like Jimmy, I can't see what use it is. "Helping" what? And it does appear that it's had some serious "reforming operation" in its past. The other spring on that lever seems to be to return the lever to its rest position, but the lower spring's purpose escapes me.

Best regards!

Tim Orr

 

[roughbarked]

In the photos I see a spring attached to the lifting lever, is that being lifted instead of the lever itself, therefore setting off the strike early? I can't see where the spring is supposed to be as it does not look to have a purpose where it is at the moment.

From my recollection, springs are meant to return.

 

[JimmyOz]

Not on a Pogo stick...

 

[roughbarked]

Should I have said return springs?

 

[Vint]

You can just bend that spring up or down to get it out of the way and see what happens, I think the spring should be on top of the lifting lever as there is no other reason for it to be there.

Here is a pic of the Hamburg movement before I disassembled and cleaned it. You can see the spring alive and well. I’ll bend it to see what happens. Thnx

 

[Vint]

Good evening, Vint!

At least the strikes are half an hour apart! That's a start. I agree with Jimmy that it could be that spring on the lower end of the lifting lever. In fact, like Jimmy, I can't see what use it is. "Helping" what? And it does appear that it's had some serious "reforming operation" in its past. The other spring on that lever seems to be to return the lever to its rest position, but the lower spring's purpose escapes me.

Best regards!

Tim Orr

Appreciate your response....I’ll take a close look at this spring. Thanks Tim!

 

[JimmyOz]

That is a better photo, it looks as though the spring has a kink in it at about the right place where it would fit ontop of the lever, try it on top of the lever and I think it could work.

 

[shutterbug]

So if the spring is not causing the issue, and the hand seems to be the correct one for the clock, your only recourse is to change the position of the lifting pinion on the minute arbor. That may turn out to be easier than it sounds, because it must be loose and slipped position somehow. The cutouts on the hour cannon are more than likely a friction clutch for the hands, running on a solid arbor. If you could remove the cannon and get a pic of that pinion and how it operates we'll be more able to offer suggestions. If the arbor is indeed a solid one (not removable) the lift will somehow be associated with a separate and removable minute shaft. And if that's what you find, things may get easier still.

 

[tracerjack]

After enlarging the photo, does anyone else see the rough end on the lifter near the center arbor in post #23, as if it has suffered some damage? It looks to me like the upper part of the tip has broken off. If that’s the case, the spring may not be original, but simply an attempt to add length to the lifter tip.

On re-examining the photo, I think the tip is rough, but could be all there. The lighting and angle is maybe deceiving me. Checked an earlier photo and the tip of the lifter is fine. The lower portion of the helper spring is out of position and surely causing the early strike. Check the photos of my HAC in my post #28.

 

[tracerjack]

Pulled my HAC, which looks to be the same movement, including the helper spring. So that spring is original. Mine also uses a slotted minute hand. It strikes properly on the hour and half hour, so the set up is correct. I removed the motion works to show the lifter tip. On mine, the lower end of the spring is straight and lays just under the curved tip of the lifter. I see some significant differences between mine and the poster's which could be causing the early strike. Hope this helps.

 

[Vint]

I want to sincerely thank everyone who have helped me with this problem which I was able to correct today. It was a matter of manipulating the lifting cam a few degrees to the right until the respective hour strikes. I believe this was offered by Royce earlier and I thank him most kindly.
I really did learn a lot from suggestions offered by so many fine folks and I am fortunate to be a part of this forum. Gracias amigos!