Haller 400 day will not get in beat

[handlebar]

This is a customer clock. Been cleaned and oiled. It had a broken main spring, I replaced it. I’ve tried everything I know to set it in beat without success. I’ve checked the pivots, replaced the suspension spring, and verge (the original was cracked). I’ve adjusted the pallets. I’ve spent way too much time on this clock but don’t want to disappoint the customer. I’m at my wits end. Help please.

 

[KurtinSA]

Welcome to the message board! I have a coupe of those. What are you adjusting to get it (or try) into beat? I guess you've already checked that the locks and drops are set right.

Kurt

 

[handlebar]

KurtinSA, thanks for the reply. I’m afraid I’m kind of new at this. I don’t know about locks and drops. Maybe that’s what I’m missing.

 

[Burkhard Rasch]

please pics from the side : does it have a plastic anchor? If Yes,this often becomes loose!
Burkhard

 

[handlebar]

The anchor is brass.

 

[KurtinSA]

To set the beat, you need to turn the upper saddle which holds the top block. Here's a picture of that saddle. On these clocks, it's friction fit so it could be loose or it could be really tight.

If it's in beat, the pendulum will swing equal amounts in either direction once you hear the "tick" and "tock" of the escape mechanism.

Kurt

 

[handlebar]

The upper saddle is set in the center. I’ve counted from the tick and the tock the rotation of the pendulum. Both sideS are even in count.

 

[handlebar]

I raised the fork as high as I could get it, that seemed to help. Still stops after about 10-15 minutes

 

[Wayne A]

Looking at your first picture I took a shot at identifying the plate, 1212B looks close. From your picture I notice the fork location on the suspension spring looks too low, if I have the plate correct the gap should be about 4.9mm. To be sure of the plate a closer picture without the guard to read the text would help.
Beat and rotation needs to be equal within a degree or two.

This may help.

 

[handlebar]

I raised the fork almost to the top. I followed the video instructions. When you say the gap should be 4.9, you mean the gap between the movement of the fork?. Just tested it again. Same as before, ran for about 10-15 then stopped.

 

[KurtinSA]

Raising it is not the way to go. It takes more power to move that anchor that far side to side with the fork too high. The general rule of thumb is to lower the fork in stages until it either runs better or until the escapement flutters. If it does that, then it needs to be raised up a mm or two.

Note also that the fork tines can't grab that vertical anchor pin too tightly...at least be able to slip a regular strip of paper between the fork tines and the anchor pin. Also note that as the pendulum works back and forth, that anchor pin usually needs to move equal amounts to each side of center. If it's moving mostly on one side of center, likely the clock won't run for long.

My clock which seems exactly like this one is plate 1520AA. From the repair guide, the fork's initial position is about 4.7mm below the bottom of the upper fork. I usually start at that spot, but invariably, I end up lowering it to get a clock to run.

Kurt

 

[handlebar]

I’ll set the fork lower and see if I get better results. Thank you for your help.

 

[Wayne A]

The gap is between the upper of the fork clamp to the bottom of the top suspension block. The pate 1212B and 1520AA use the same suspension unit so the numbers should be a good place to start and come from taking a measurement from a picture in a book, so some variation occur.

 

[tracerjack]

If the rotation and over swing are equal, then the clock is in beat. Not running for more than 10 to 15 minutes suggests it me that the escapement is not performing correctly. If you watch the escape wheel, does each tooth travel the same distance? By that I mean, when a tooth is caught by the entrance pallet, does the escape wheel turn the same amount as when a tooth is caught by the exit pallet? If this is the only 400 day clock you plan to work on, I am sure this forum can help you get it running. If you think you might do more, I highly recommend the book, “Repair and Restore you 400 day Clock” by Joseph Rabushka.

 

[handlebar]

I believe the escape wheel teeth move the same distance at each click. I have successfully repaired 3 other 400 day clocks that’s why this one has caused much frustration. I will order the book you suggested, thank you for your help and advice.

 

[Wayne A]

Could be a number of things causing it to not run and some clocks are just marginal requiring everything to be set perfectly to run at all, others are more robust.
Things to consider:
That replacement verge really the same as the original?
Fork not squeezing the pin? Only need a few thousandths clearance but some clocks can bind at ends of rotation so something to watch for. Too much clearance also not good.
Are the lock's even? Lock is the depth of pallet against the EW when the drops occur. Also the verge pin should be centered vertically between the drops.
Beat needs to be spot on especially for marginal clocks. Since its not running you don't really know the size of the over swing.

That youtube link had the guy using the drop to drop beat setting method outlined in Rabushka's book which I also recommend.

 

[whatgoesaround]

I hope this is not the source of your problem, but you said that you adjusted the pallets. The pallets are almost a last resort and unless someone before you changed them, they were probably correct. Changing these is most likely the source of your consternation. It can be corrected, but it is tedious. It is addressed in this forum; I have only had to do it a couple of times and I don't feel expert enough to describe my methodology, which was more trial and error. Good luck with your repairs.

 

[Tony3900]

I hope this is not the source of your problem, but you said that you adjusted the pallets. The pallets are almost a last resort and unless someone before you changed them, they were probably correct. Changing these is most likely the source of your consternation. It can be corrected, but it is tedious. It is addressed in this forum; I have only had to do it a couple of times and I don't feel expert enough to describe my methodology, which was more trial and error. Good luck with your repairs.

whatgoesaround I am having the same problem and I tried to find where pallet adjustment was addressed in this forum. Any suggestions on where this could be found. Thank you.

 

[whatgoesaround]

Here is the title of one I found:

Can't get Forestville anniversary clock pallets timed right

My model from the Horolovar book: I had to replace the escapement as it was broken (pivot snapped off). The replacement came from a parts clock of the same series. I'm having trouble getting the pallets set properly. I tried following the narrative in the Horolovar book. but it's either not...

mb.nawcc.org

 

[KurtinSA]

An important thing to remember with the pallets is that they are located on a large circle, their curved shape falls on that arc of the circle. So for example, if your anchor pin is not in the vertical position as the escape wheel just begins to slide down the impulse face of the pallet, visualize how you can lower one pallet and raise the other pallet the exact same amount, the pin will end up in a new position but the action at the pallets will be the same. So that's one consideration to repositioning the anchor pin.

As for other changes to the pallets, you need to visualize what is happening as the escapement works. If for example, one tooth lands on the impulse face, that might happen because the opposite pallet is not exposed enough, thus letting the tooth drop too early. As I recall, that's the general idea that the repair guide puts out...the action at one pallet could be due to the position of the opposite pallet.

Kurt

 

[Antibet]

Hi good morning happy Saturday. Apologies if I've posted this is the wrong place.
I bought A Haller 400 day midget clock as spares repair with the usual broken suspension spring. The only spring i had was a .003 which i cut to size and fitted, all running well but of course too fast. This morning I fitted a.0018 spring and all was going well until I wound the clock up. Now the clock is skipping at mid point between tick and tock. As you can see on the video it is still letting just one tooth through on its cycle but if i stop the pendulum, complete rest point the escape wheel bounces along...
Thanks in advance
Cheers John
Oh well it won't let me post videos... Ah youtube

 

[Bod]

Hi good morning happy Saturday. Apologies if I've posted this is the wrong place.
I bought A Haller 400 day midget clock as spares repair with the usual broken suspension spring. The only spring i had was a .003 which i cut to size and fitted, all running well but of course too fast. This morning I fitted a.0018 spring and all was going well until I wound the clock up. Now the clock is skipping at mid point between tick and tock. As you can see on the video it is still letting just one tooth through on its cycle but if i stop the pendulum, complete rest point the escape wheel bounces along...
Thanks in advance
Cheers John
Oh well it won't let me post videos... Ah youtube

It's "fluttering" raise the fork a little.

Bod

 

[Antibet]

It's "fluttering" raise the fork a little.

Bod

Moved the fork up at this angle for the time being, it's turning through 300 degrees now. Hasn't galloped on as yet.....

Cheers Bod
John

 

[Tony3900]

Here is the title of one I found:

Can't get Forestville anniversary clock pallets timed right

My model from the Horolovar book: I had to replace the escapement as it was broken (pivot snapped off). The replacement came from a parts clock of the same series. I'm having trouble getting the pallets set properly. I tried following the narrative in the Horolovar book. but it's either not...

mb.nawcc.org

Thank you whatgoesaround.

 

[Antibet]

Moved the fork up at this angle for the time being, it's turning through 300 degrees now. Hasn't galloped on as yet.....

Cheers Bod
John

View attachment 749522

 

[Antibet]

Moved the fork up at this angle for the time being, it's turning through 300 degrees now. Hasn't galloped on as yet.....

Cheers Bod
John

View attachment 749522