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Gustav Becker Verge Crutch Assembly

ClipClock

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I'm working on an old GB mantel clock at the moment. (My 1st German time and strike :) )

It has this verge/crutch assembly that I'm not familiar with. Clearly this black triangular thing is a sort of spring that allows you to adjust the crutch/beat. But it all feels very loose and I'm really not sure it should be as loose as it is. I don't want to go bending it if that's how it should be, but it only takes the very lightest finger pressure to move it. My feeling is that when a pendulum is hung it will likely move rather than actually power the pendulum

Can anyone familiar with this type of movement give me steer? Is this normal?

The clock didnt work when I got it so I was unable to test it before dissembling (no change there then :rolleyes: )

P1030698_2758.jpg P1030700_2760.jpg P1030701_2761.jpg
 

shimmystep

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Mar 5, 2012
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Looks similar to a spider spring you find on the centre arbor, and will work in the same way. The tension can be adjusted by a slight tweak with its legs. It may have this arrangement if it's self setting beat set up,so it won't want to be too tight clip
 

Tinker Dwight

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Self adjusting beat doesn't work with a recoil.
If it won't hold beat, tighten it a little.
Self adjusters work by the tips of the pallets hitting
the center wheel part when over locking swing. Recoils have no
method to stop when in lock.
Tinker Dwight
 

shimmystep

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Self adjusting beat doesn't work with a recoil.
If it won't hold beat, tighten it a little.
Self adjusters work by the tips of the pallets hitting
the center wheel part when over locking swing. Recoils have no
method to stop when in lock.
Tinker Dwight
Of course, didn't think that one through Tinker.
Instead of bending the legs clip, I would be tempted to add a small washer, that would also make it easier to get the pin in and out
 

ClipClock

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Thanks very much :)

I'll give it a little tweak, I can always tighten it more later when I've got it all back together if it needs it. It's almost floppy at the moment so can't see how it would work reliably (or at all really) as it is. But since I hadn't seen this arrangement before I wanted to be check first

Shimmy yes its got the same thing on the centre arbor

Its a really nice movement, I'm enjoying it, I'm having fun having a go at all these different types :) The old chimer is still dinging and donging happily by the way :)
 

ClipClock

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Instead of bending the legs clip, I would be tempted to add a small washer, that would also make it easier to get the pin in and out
Oh thats a good idea, thanks Shimmy

Edited to say, washer worked perfectly, still moves but there is some resistance
 
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Randy Beckett

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May 23, 2012
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Hi Clip,

I have worked on a few recoils that had auto beat adjusters, though not one just like this, but they all have a pin or post attached to the arbor that fits in some kind of slot in the plate that offers the resistance against the autobeat, rather than bottoming out in the escape wheel like on a deadbeat. I suspicion the pin on the opposite end of the arbor from the verge on yours is for this purpose.

The correct tension on a hermle or urgos deadbeat is to lay the assembly on it's side and place 2 of our quarters(12 grams) on the crutch. If it will hold them without slipping, it is good. If not, it's too loose. I would think this would be a universal test for an autobeat.
 

ClipClock

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Oh, not sure now. There's 2 pins on this arbor, the one holding the triangular spring in place. and one 'sticking up pin' at the far end of the arbor which just sits in a little 'window' on the plate (not touching anything) so you can see when the beat is perfect (neat little feature, I like :) ). Perhaps I'll just see if it ticks and take it from there
 

Tinker Dwight

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Oct 11, 2010
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Hi Clip,

I have worked on a few recoils that had auto beat adjusters, though not one just like this, but they all have a pin or post attached to the arbor that fits in some kind of slot in the plate that offers the resistance against the autobeat, rather than bottoming out in the escape wheel like on a deadbeat. I suspicion the pin on the opposite end of the arbor from the verge on yours is for this purpose.

The correct tension on a hermle or urgos deadbeat is to lay the assembly on it's side and place 2 of our quarters(12 grams) on the crutch. If it will hold them without slipping, it is good. If not, it's too loose. I would think this would be a universal test for an autobeat.
Interesting way to do it. It does require careful manufacture to match the
slot with the pallets.
I'd not seen that before.
Tinker Dwight
 

Randy Beckett

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May 23, 2012
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Interesting way to do it. It does require careful manufacture to match the
slot with the pallets.
I'd not seen that before.
Tinker Dwight
The other ones I've seen(2 or 3) had the lever that goes thru the slot attached to the arbor with a collet that you could slip to adjust it to be dead center the slot when the clock was in beat, however this one looks like you would bend the pin. Pretty much of a pain to adjust, but once done, works well if the tension is right on the autobeat clutch. Good looking design on the autobeat clutch on this one, from what I can tell.
 

ClipClock

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Hmmm, Randy you've managed to make me suffieiently unsure of my washer that I just removed it again and will see if it works without 1st, I don't want to mess up Mr GB's glorious design :D
 

ClipClock

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That is such a cool clock, lined up its little verge arbor pin thing in the window, wound it up and it was immediately as near to being in beat as any clock I've ever heard. No faffing around :cool: No washer needed so I wasted your time on that, sorry

All striking fine too. A couple of bushings, a good clean and one slightly bent bit straightened and its all good :)

Only thing left to 'fix' is as a result of me being an idiot :rolleyes: . I keep forgetting that all movements are not as accommodating as little french clocks and you cant just put the hands on to line up with the strikes.... so at the moment its striking at 10 to and 20 after. Which is going to be a faff to put right as there is no moveable collet on the hands so I guess I'll have to fiddle with the centre lifting cam thing until I get it right. At least thats the only way I can think of fixing it.....

But otherwise its all good :)
 

harold bain

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Without seeing the movement, hard to advise. You might just need to move the minute cannon to set the strike timing.
 

ClipClock

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Thanks Harold, I'll check that out, that would be a lot easier if I can.

I had the same problem with the old chimer but managed to move the collet on the hand in the end. All seems unnecessarily complicated...but maybe I'm missing something

Randy, thank you , but it wouldnt be possible to just turn the hand over in this case. How are you getting on with the gorgeous W&H by the way?
 

Randy Beckett

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May 23, 2012
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Randy, thank you , but it wouldnt be possible to just turn the hand over in this case. How are you getting on with the gorgeous W&H by the way?
It is currently in a holding pattern waiting it's turn. Other projects ahead of it. Won't be long though, it's at my friends shop a couple of miles away, as he has experience with movements(fusee) like this and I don't. Thought it wise to let him have this one, and I'd watch and help him if I could, and try to learn something. Too much to risk there unnecessarily, just for the sake of a little pride.
 

dAz57

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Oh thats a good idea, thanks Shimmy

Edited to say, washer worked perfectly, still moves but there is some resistance
The spring has a raised rim where the spring sits doesn't it?, this is to prevent the pin falling out because normally it is a straight pin that is a slide fit in the hole.

No need for a washer, I just slightly bend the spring legs if I feel it needs to be tighter which is rare
 

Jay Fortner

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The spring has a raised rim where the spring sits doesn't it?, this is to prevent the pin falling out because normally it is a straight pin that is a slide fit in the hole.

No need for a washer, I just slightly bend the spring legs if I feel it needs to be tighter which is rare
X2
 

ClipClock

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I actually took the washer off yesterday and decided to just try it without making any changes at all and its working fine so I needn't have worried. Back in its case now and ticking and donging happily

It was a total arse ache trying to get the hands to synch with the strike though, moving the minute cannon didn't work. Took me as long to accomplish that as it did to put the whole movement together. I definitely need to sort that out at an earlier stage next time.

The movement had an extremely bent centre arbor (basically from the point it left the plate to the point where you pin the hands - it looked like concorde lol). Kind of wonder if that contributed to my problems. (Obviously I straightened it :rolleyes: ). Some idiot had tried (and succeeded it seems) in taking the movement out through the front of the case without removing either dial or hands consequently bent it up and then dumped it in our local auction. When I got it the movement was hanging off the dial by its hands and the dial wasnt connected at all. Another of my quality purchases lol, but very cheap (£18.00) and great to practice on. Happy its all working anyway :)
 
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