Gustav Becker Torsion Pendulum Wall Clock

[stickman70]

This is my first post, so hi everyone...

I have just taken possession of this GB torsion wall clock. I know it was bought at auction in the UK in 1964 from an estate sale.

It has a slip of paper with it the states it was made in 1902 (its handwritten by my grandfather so not an official document from the maker), although I have read on at least one website that it maybe 1900 going by the serial number (1759725), from the markings on the movement it was made in the Freiburg factory.

It seems to be a little unusual being a torsion mechanism, I haven't been able to find anything about this particular clock so far, so thought I would throw up some pictures here to see if anyone can shed some light on it. I know Gustav Becker made torsion clocks, but I haven't found any information on torsion wall clocks specifically.

The clock itself has been well looked after but has always been unreliable. It spent about a year in the '90's with a clock repairer who would get it running for a few weeks at a time, but it would always end up stopping. The damage to the face surround was present when purchased in 1964.

The movement is clean and runs when the pendulum is spun but once the momentum is lost will stop, usually after about 3 or 4 minutes.

Anyway here are some pictures .

Cheers

Dave
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[Walesey]

Re: My Uncle's GB clocks

What a lovely clock Dave!

John Hubby will be the expert who can tell you all you want to know (both about GB's specifically and torsion clocks in general), but in my reading of John's list of serial numbers, I would think your clock was made in 1904.

Where in Aus are you situated? I know that the clock parts retailer, "Smith and Smith" in Sydney have a torsion wall clock hanging on their wall in the shop. That is the only other torsion wall clock I remember seeing (although There are a lot of clocks I have never seen! I certainly am no expert)

My experience is that Torsion clocks can be a little finnicky, but they were designed to run, and so they should. Is your clock "in beat"? (is there EXACTLY the same time between the tick and the tock as there is between the tock and the next tick? ie tick - tock - tick - tock, rather than tick tock---tick tock)

Is there plenty of power from the spring? there would be a vertical rod sticking up from the escape wheel, that goes between two tines that are attached to the torsion spring. If you move that vertical rod manually, does it flick from one side to the other or just move sluggishly across?

The position of the tines up the torsion spring can be fairly critical too.

If you are around Sydney, NSW, there is a special NAWCC chapter devoted exclusively to torsion clocks (Chapter 168, I think, from memory). I am sure that you would be welcome to drop in there with your clock and get some tips.

Cheers
Walesey

 

[stickman70]

Re: My Uncle's GB clocks

Hi Walesey,

Thanks for the awesome reply!

I'm in Perth so won't be able to visit the shop until I make my way east.

I have had a look at the mechanism, and everything seems in order, although clearly something is amiss or it would run.
It doesn't really "tick, tock" as the torsion motion is much slower than a pendulum equivalent, but it does seem even when the pendulum is spun. The tines engage the rod from the escape and escape wheel rotates positively under the power from the spring (i did check it was wound).

The rod doesn't flick across though and this could be the nub of the problem, as it doesn't seem to be imparting any energy back to the rotation of the pendulum.

I will go through the notes the repairer made back in the '90's and see what observations he made.

Cheers

Dave

 

[John Hubby]

Re: My Uncle's GB Clocks

This is my first post, so hi everyone...

I have just taken possession of this GB torsion wall clock. I know it was bought at auction in the UK in 1964 from an estate sale.

It has a slip of paper with it the states it was made in 1902 (its handwritten by my grandfather so not an official document from the maker), although I have read on at least one website that it maybe 1900 going by the serial number (1759725), from the markings on the movement it was made in the Freiburg factory.

It seems to be a little unusual being a torsion mechanism, I haven't been able to find anything about this particular clock so far, so thought I would throw up some pictures here to see if anyone can shed some light on it. I know Gustav Becker made torsion clocks, but I haven't found any information on torsion wall clocks specifically.

The clock itself has been well looked after but has always been unreliable. It spent about a year in the '90's with a clock repairer who would get it running for a few weeks at a time, but it would always end up stopping. The damage to the face surround was present when purchased in 1964.

The movement is clean and runs when the pendulum is spun but once the momentum is lost will stop, usually after about 3 or 4 minutes.

Anyway here are some pictures .

Cheers, Dave

Dave, first a warm welcome to the NAWCC Message Board! Thanks much for your posted info and the photos of your GB torsion pendulum wall clock. These are rather rare, I know of only six examples at the present time; three have Vienna Architectural style cases including your clock, two have much later box clock cases, and one is only a movement and dial. Walesey was correct regarding the year it was made, actually early 1904 based on the serial number. The lowest number I've recorded is 1759701 (this is the clock from which Plate 1193 in the Horolovar 400-Day Clock Repair Guide 10th Ed was drawn), and the highest is 175987. From that, my present estimate is that only about 100 examples were made, all in one batch.

One question about details, is there a GB Anchor logo and serial number stamped on the front plate of the movement? All the others documented have that feature.

Your dial is similar to three of the other clocks, the others all have metal dials with various type design elements.

Regarding operation of the clock, I suspect there are two things needed. First, a good and thorough cleaning and lubrication, then setting up the escapement, suspension fork, and suspension assembly correctly, and finally putting the clock in beat. Your clock is easily adjusted to beat due to the long lever attached to the upper suspension block, this is a feature found on all the others as well. "How to do it" can best be found in the 400-Day, Atmos, and Other Torsion clock Forum, so I'll be moving these posts there into a new thread so the experts can all put in their tuppence.

Again, welcome and you have a truly wonderful clock!

 

[stickman70]

Re: My Uncle's GB Clocks

Hi John,

Thanks for the welcome and the great information about this clock.

It's good to find out some history behind it, I will ask my mum which estate this came from later. My grandfather collected clocks and watches, my mum has a really nice atmos clock that is one of her prized possessions.

I will have a look tonight to see if I can find any other stamps or marks.

I can see I have a lot of background reading and research to do before I attempt any maintenance.

Cheers

Dave

 

[stickman70]

Re: My Uncle's GB Clocks

Hi John,

I had a look last night and sure enough could see the serial number on the front plate of the movement, I wasn't able to see if the GB logo was present though due to the clock face obscuring the plate.

Cheers

Dave

 

[Tinker Dwight]

Re: My Uncle's GB Clocks

Many clock repair shops don't understand 400 day movements.
Most of the rules of thumb that work for recoil and even for deadbeats
may fail to get a running 400 day clock.
They are just enough different to cause them to not run.
Tinker Dwight

 

[stickman70]

Re: My Uncle's GB Clocks

Hi Tinker,
Thanks for the advice, I'm going to be calling a clock repairer today and sound him about it. I really don't have the funds to let a specialist play with it as it turn out to be a very long process. Last time it was sent away (back '96) it was at the shop for nearly a year! I'm hoping that as it is complete and has been carefully stored that it will require careful setting up rather than a massive overhaul...time will tell I guess.
Cheers
Dave

 

[Randy Beckett]

Re: My Uncle's GB Clocks

Hi Dave, There is one person that is sometimes on the forum that is pretty close to you and sometimes goes to Perth that might help you out. You might send a private message to AndyDWA. He hasn't been into torsion clocks but a couple of years, but I think he's pretty sharp on them, and he would love to see your clock.

 

[stickman70]

Re: My Uncle's GB Clocks

Hi Randy,
Thanks for that, I will pm him and see if he can help
Cheers
Dave

 

[AndyDWA]

Re: My Uncle's GB Clocks

Wow, Dave, what a nice clock!

I'm almost 400km south of you but if I can find the time next time I'm in Perth I'll try to meet up and take a look. I guess if I can't help you with it, I can always just take it off your hands so you don't need to worry about it any more

 

[Randy Beckett]

Re: My Uncle's GB Clocks

Good to see you back Andy. I was hoping you were lurking about.

 

[stickman70]

Re: My Uncle's GB Clocks

So you're around Denmark? Cool. Sorry but the clock is staying with me
Let me know when you're in the area, I'd be happy to show you the clock.

Cheers

Dave

 

[John Hubby]

Per Dave's request I've changed the thread title to describe the clock being discussed. Andy, good to see you back!

 

[daveR]

Walesy, I think we had better watch out, with 400 day clocks like that over there in the west, we might star to find things a bit tight over here - they might even start their own 400D chapter!!
david

 

[Walesey]

It is definitely a nice looking clock. It would be great to see it going. I hope that AndyDWA can help. I've never been to Perth, but it might be worth the trip just to see Dave's clock running. I hope you have a "Guest Room" Dave. Big enough for both Dave R and me!

Cheers
Walesey

 

[AndyDWA]

Dave pm'd me so I thought it best to acknowledge him here as well as directly.

John mentioned the beat-set lever. Does the top block just rest in place or is there some sort of friction housing? Can it be knocked out of beat by moving the pendulum too much? I'll see if I have a suspension wire here that will get the job done (if it needs one).

Also - is that pendulum adjustable (I ask because Dave has a note from a previous repair which mentions a lot of wire thinning for modest time adjustments. It also mentions pallet adjustment, rebushing and "changed the nibs", whatever that means, so it might be interesting).


(@ John & Randy... Thanks. I still pop in from time to time but have been quiet. It's been a while since I got a 'new' clock - I might have run this place dry - but I did get a new computer and that's been chewing up a lot of my hobby time).

 

[stickman70]

I have a spare room, you guys can top & tail!

Back to the clock...the pendulum is adjustable, the cone shape near the bottom houses the weights. By rotating it the weights can be moved inwards or outwards to speed up or slow down the pendulum rotation. The beat-set level is in a friction type housing with a level that extends over the top of the dial.

Here are the notes made back in '96..

 

[AndyDWA]

Is it okay to use the winding handle as a let-down tool, or better to have the usual key-handle set-up?

 

[John Hubby]

Dave, thanks very much for posting the repair notes. They answer most of the questions, plus you have answered whether the pendulum is used for rating adjustment.

The pallets (nibs) were changed, he says the entry pallet angle was wrong and after changing the clock ran well. It should still run well if that is the case.

I had thought the upper block could remain "friction tight" to allow beat adjustment, evidently that is the case.

Andy, I wouldn't try to use the winding crank to let down the mainspring. Too much chance for it coming loose and doing real damage, best to use a regular let-down key.