Gustav Becker tall clock with Kieninger and Obergfell movement

[Vgr]

Thanks for the add! I was looking for information on a tall clock that I just acquired and ran across this old post from 2018-
Is there a way to date JAK (Kieninger) Serial numbers on movements?
in the thread, claussclocks mentioned the design was Gustav Becker and I searched and to my surprise, my clock face, pendulum and weights resembled one made by Gustav Becker! However, my clock movement has an KO trademark stamp for Kieninger and Obergfell with the serial number 4185 (seams like an early serial number). Which is interesting since the post mentioned above had the movement made by one of the sons of Kieninger I believe or something like that. So it’s interesting that the movements in two tall clocks possibly made by Gustav Becker had movements made by the Kieninger family. I wouldn’t think the low serial number of the movement would be a replacement but I guess anything is possible. I have attached a couple of photos of my clock- Any information on the approximate year would be greatly appreciated!

 

[new2clocks]

Welcome to the forum.

A word of caution when attributing a case or dial or hands or bobs to a particular movement maker.

Most movement makers did not make their own cases but contracted other companies to provide the cases. These companies were both case makers and wholesalers. Some movement makers had carpentry facilities and made their own cases (i.e., LFS), but this did not preclude that movement maker from purchasing cases from a casemaker who also provided the same case to other movement makers.

In addition, all German movement makers sold 'loose' movements, both marked and unmarked, to the trade - wholesalers, retailers, jewelers, etc., - who then cased the movement in their own cases.

I found an interesting advertisement (courtesy Doug Stevenson) from a wholesaler's catalog. Doug stated:

Below is an example -- just one -- from a 1915 wholesaler's catalogue. You could get that particular case in walnut or oak, and a movement by "Adler" (Mauthe) and one of their gongs or a "Flügelrad" movement (Kienzle) or one from "GB" (VFU/Gustav Becker). And all with a choice of glasses and dial, weight shells and bob.

So, you could purchase a clock with the same furniture aspects - case, dial, hands, bobs - with a different movement. And, since this was standard practice in the German clock industry, each of the three clocks, all with different movements, were all original.

Another word of caution is that Kieninger und Obergfell, whose trademark shows on your movement and is commonly referred to as KUNDO, is not the same company as Joseph Kieninger, located in Aldingen. KUNDO was located in St. Georgen.

Regards.

 

[Vgr]

Welcome to the forum.

A word of caution when attributing a case or dial or hands or bobs to a particular movement maker.

Most movement makers did not make their own cases but contracted other companies to provide the cases. These companies were both case makers and wholesalers. Some movement makers had carpentry facilities and made their own cases (i.e., LFS), but this did not preclude that movement maker from purchasing cases from a casemaker who also provided the same case to other movement makers.

In addition, all German movement makers sold 'loose' movements, both marked and unmarked, to the trade - wholesalers, retailers, jewelers, etc., - who then cased the movement in their own cases.

I found an interesting advertisement (courtesy Doug Stevenson) from a wholesaler's catalog. Doug stated:

Below is an example -- just one -- from a 1915 wholesaler's catalogue. You could get that particular case in walnut or oak, and a movement by "Adler" (Mauthe) and one of their gongs or a "Flügelrad" movement (Kienzle) or one from "GB" (VFU/Gustav Becker). And all with a choice of glasses and dial, weight shells and bob.

So, you could purchase a clock with the same furniture aspects - case, dial, hands, bobs - with a different movement. And, since this was standard practice in the German clock industry, each of the three clocks, all with different movements, were all original.

Another word of caution is that Kieninger und Obergfell, whose trademark shows on your movement and is commonly referred to as KUNDO, is not the same company as Joseph Kieninger, located in Aldingen. KUNDO was located in St. Georgen.

Regards.

Thanks new2clocks ! I feel better about my clock now!