• We are aware of the performance issues with the forum. These are due to problems with Comcast's shared lines in the Columbia, PA area. On December 15, we signed a contract to bring a dedicated fiber line to the forum servers. It should take somewhere between 30 and 90 days to install. Thank you for your patience.

Gustav Becker Striking Problem

Ken Ewers

Registered User
Jan 8, 2022
5
0
1
69
Country
Hello. I'm somewhat of a "newbie" to putzing with old mechanical clocks and definitely a "newbie" to this forum, so excuse me if I do not use correct terminology.

I have a Gustav Beckley movement and am baffled why I cannot get it to chime properly anymore--note the operative word "anymore". To me, there seems to be two issues.

The clock runs fine until it hits the top of the hour where it hangs up because on of the "teeth" on the lifting cam cannot pass under the tab on the "L" shaped vertical lifting lever. The tab, which the two lifting cam teeth need to pass under, is contained in a slot in the plate. The smaller tooth passes under fine, but the larger tooth (hour?) pushes the lifting lever all the way to the right, causing it to abut against the right edge of the slot, and here it stops. A gentle nudge of the minute hand and it will clear, but there is resistance. Once it clears, the striking begins (although at this point, not correctly--second issue). Looking at the vertical lifting lever from the side, I can see that it may have a bend or twist. Perhaps straightening would resolve this problem.

The second issue seems to be that the lifting mechanism will not lift the "floating" gathering pallet high enough to disengage it from the rack teeth so that the pallet will fall further up the rack so that it can work its way down the remaining teeth. I can manually lift the gathering pallet (with the side lever protruding from the side of the movement--not sure what the purpose of this lever is), the gathering pallet falls into the proper place in the rack, and counts down properly.

If the vertical lifting lever is supposed to lift and disengage the gathering pallet, I do not see how that can happen when the vertical lifting lever is restricted by a hard stop--the right side of the slot it moves in. The horizontal lifting lever does not lift high enough to disengage the gathering pallet.

I'm sorry this is so wordy, but I want to explain what I have observed. I think this movement may be a little odd--with the "floating" gathering pallet, but hopefully someone is familiar with it. Earlier in this post, I mentioned that the clock isn't working properly "anymore". I have suspicions that the hour hand may have been moved independently, but I'm not accusing. This exercise has brought out the OCD tendencies in me--hours of staring and thinking about this movement--lol.

Thanks for any and all input. Hope the pics are helpful.

DSCN3083.JPG DSCN3084.JPG DSCN3085.JPG DSCN3086.JPG
 

tracerjack

Registered User
Jun 6, 2016
2,136
372
83
Lodi, CA
Country
Region
I have to confess that it is a bit difficult to follow your description with terms that I must guess to which part they refer. I have worked on a GB with the “floating” gathering pallet arbor, but as I remember, it worked no differently than a fixed arbor GP. As it rotates, it pushed the rack upwards one tooth at a time. So I am confused by your description of a vertical lifting lever. If that is the rack hook you are describing, it doesn’t lift anything, but only prevents the rack from falling as the pin on the gathering pallet disengages from a tooth. Since you have the movement out of the case, a video posted to YouTube made public and linked here on a post with the chain icon would certainly help.
 

wow

NAWCC Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,878
752
113
76
Pineville, La. (central La.)
Country
Region
Like Tracer, I am having trouble understanding exactly what the problem is. It would be better if you would make a video of it with you turning the minute hand slowly and let us see what is happening.
Make it on YouTube and upload it here.
 

tracerjack

Registered User
Jun 6, 2016
2,136
372
83
Lodi, CA
Country
Region
I pulled by Gustav Becker movement with the floating Gathering Pallet and see now that the rack hook does not function like most rack hooks. It only catches the rack and the end of the run. The Gathering Pallet has two pins that while one is lifting, the other comes into play before the rack can fall. Here is a video of mine working properly. Perhaps you can see where yours is acting differently particularly if you use the gear icon to slow down the speed of the video. It starts out with the rack hook already out of the way with the pin on the GP holding the rack up. With the higher lift, the GP is pushed out of the way and the rack falls.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: wow

Ken Ewers

Registered User
Jan 8, 2022
5
0
1
69
Country
Thanks for the video. One thing that caught my attention is at what point does the rack drop to engage the GP? During warning? Mine is not doing anything during the warning phase.

I did a video on my phone and am trying to get it posted to this thread..Don't know how to do YouTube.
 

Ken Ewers

Registered User
Jan 8, 2022
5
0
1
69
Country
Here is the video of what happens at the top of the hour. The fan moves a little at warning and that's all. No rack movement.
 

Attachments

tracerjack

Registered User
Jun 6, 2016
2,136
372
83
Lodi, CA
Country
Region
No, not during the warning. This is the sequence of events. The lifter begins lifting the long lever. Halfway during the lift, the lever with the eye hole is engaged by the long lever and is moved up out of the way of a lower pinned wheel. This eye hole lever also has the large half pin. This lower pinned wheel is the stop wheel for the strike train. When released, the strike train will begin to turn. During the same movement of the long lever, a detent on the long lever is being raised to intercept a pinned wheel above the lower pinned wheel; this one is the pinned warn wheel. With a higher raise, the GB is moved out of the way and the rack falls. The upper pinned warn wheel is still caught to prevent the strike train from moving. When the long lever falls, the pinned warn wheel is released and the strike begins. I've included a photo with the main parts listed so you can follow what I am saying.
GBfloatGP2b.jpg
 
Last edited:

wow

NAWCC Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,878
752
113
76
Pineville, La. (central La.)
Country
Region
I believe the gathering pallet is in need of adjustment. The rack is not dropping because one of the pins stops it. Turn the gathering pallet on it’s arbor so the rack can drop at that point.
 

tracerjack

Registered User
Jun 6, 2016
2,136
372
83
Lodi, CA
Country
Region
I agree with wow. I think the pins on the GP are not in the right relationship with the rack teeth. You can see the relationship on my movement in the photo of post #7. However, because the arbor is loose and able to move up and down, I am not sure the GP can be turned like others. It looks as if you will have to grab the arbor and then try to twist the GP collar. Do not touch the pins. If it won't move, then I think you would have to resync the wheels by opening the plates after the mainsprings have been let down.
gathering pallet.jpg
 
Last edited:

tracerjack

Registered User
Jun 6, 2016
2,136
372
83
Lodi, CA
Country
Region
I tried to move the pins on my GP which I thought could benefit from a slight adjustment, but there just wasn't enough room to grab the arbor and turn either the silver cap or the brass collar. You may be stuck with having to realign the wheels.
 

Ken Ewers

Registered User
Jan 8, 2022
5
0
1
69
Country
Thanks for the additional information. I wondered about the pins, but thought, nah. I now have a better understanding of how the sequence of events takes place, and what area I should be troubleshooting. Yay, another learning opportunity...Get the camera and note-taking pad ready.
 

wow

NAWCC Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,878
752
113
76
Pineville, La. (central La.)
Country
Region
The arbor on the gathering pallet is round on this one, right? Just use two flat blade screwdrivers and pry it upwards. Then turn it so the rack will drop at the right time and then tighten it back on the arbor by tapping with a hollow punch.
 

tracerjack

Registered User
Jun 6, 2016
2,136
372
83
Lodi, CA
Country
Region
Wow, I don't think there is anyway to pry it up. This GP is made of a cap type collar that looks to be part of the brass collar seen on the inside of the plate. You can see it in the photo in post # 9. Appears to fit over the enlarged part of the arbor. The whole gathering pallet and arbor can move up and down, which you can see by the shape of the slot. Very difficult to stabilize for turning or prying anything. I have a feeling it must be properly set during reassembly. I hope I'm wrong on that. That the OP's GP slipped is the most logical reason for why it was working and then suddenly not. How it slipped is beyond me.
GBfloatGP1c.jpg
 
Last edited:

wow

NAWCC Member
Jun 24, 2008
5,878
752
113
76
Pineville, La. (central La.)
Country
Region
Ok. I see it in your photo. Couldn’t see it in the video. I’ve never seen that set-up. So the only way to set the pins is to separate the plates and turn the wheels? Bummer!
 

tracerjack

Registered User
Jun 6, 2016
2,136
372
83
Lodi, CA
Country
Region
It seems like it should be turntable, but I don't see how. It is the only movement I have seen with this type of gathering pallet. Since mine worked after assembly, I never had the need to try and turn it, so no experience there. Hope someone has some and can set things straight.
 

Ken Ewers

Registered User
Jan 8, 2022
5
0
1
69
Country
Update...finally got back to this movement. I straightened, what appeared to be a slightly bent lifter (which entailed removing a dreaded e-clip), and the movement is no longer hanging up at the top of the hour. Not only that, but the floating gathering pallet lifted enough to allow the rack to drop and the GP to fall into place. This has happened two times in a row--perhaps a trend?

So far, I have not had to reposition the GP so that the pins on the GP rest on the rack differently. I'm trying to follow the path of least resistance, so not having to tear apart the movement is good. I couldn't have gotten this far without everyones' input.

I would think the fact that the movement is doing what is expected is a good sign, but it's not over until...
 

tracerjack

Registered User
Jun 6, 2016
2,136
372
83
Lodi, CA
Country
Region
It doesn’t take much on the lifters to change the outcome. Since it is now doing what it is supposed to do, I agree that is a good sign.
 

Forum statistics

Threads
171,038
Messages
1,493,308
Members
50,085
Latest member
Genda
Encyclopedia Pages
1,060
Total wiki contributions
2,967
Last edit
E. Howard & Co. by Clint Geller