Gustav Becker looking to get need advice on price

Darrmann39

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I've got a few cheap 400 day clocks (euramca and kundo) vintage I've had good success on getting running and have a chance on a local auction to get this. Very cool looking needs at the least a suspension spring. Any idea on what it might be worth or what would be overpaying for it. I really like it but people really drive up prices without knowing real values and so the reason for my question.

Screenshot_20210127-172535_Samsung Internet.jpg Screenshot_20210127-172525_Samsung Internet.jpg Screenshot_20210127-172515_Samsung Internet.jpg
 

KurtinSA

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Is there a serial number on the movement? While the pendulum has some characteristics of a Gustav Becker, I'm not totally sure. Plus, this looks like a miniature and I was not aware they made miniature versions of a skeleton clock. The dome doesn't seem correct for the size of the clock.

Maybe others might have some better ideas, but I question whether it is a true GB. Another post of a GB skeleton clock...note the logos on the back plate.


As far as price goes, I'm not sure I have a good idea.

Kurt
 
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Darrmann39

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Is there a serial number on the movement? While the pendulum has some characteristics of a Gustav Becker, I'm not totally sure. Plus, this looks like a miniature and I was not aware they made miniature versions of a skeleton clock. The dome doesn't seem correct for the size of the clock.

Maybe others might have some better ideas, but I question whether it is a true GB. Another post of a GB skeleton clock...note the logos on the back plate.


As far as price goes, I'm not sure I have a good idea.

Kurt
Can't see serial number , I agree the dome does look to tall but the pendulum looks just like the one on the link you provided , it's a little obscured in my pic because of the angle. And because of the not so great pics. It does appear to have the 2 circles of the gb mark that i see in the link also. It's a bit of a drive so probably won't go look at it in person but if it stays low right now under $25 I'll get it just to see.
 

KurtinSA

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OK, I might see something that could be called circles but it's a stretch! I now see the four small standoff posts that are on the middle of the back plate. Those appear to be the usual GB posts designed to secure the suspension guard. So, maybe it is a GB.

Somehow, I don't see it staying at $25. But you could get lucky!



Kurt
 
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Darrmann39

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OK, I might see something that could be called circles but it's a stretch! I now see the four small standoff posts that are on the middle of the back plate. Those appear to be the usual GB posts designed to secure the suspension guard. So, maybe it is a GB.

Somehow, I don't see it staying at $25. But you could get lucky!



Kurt
I've gotten some pretty good deals at this place with not many people bidding on non working clocks. Hopefully this will be one. Thanks for the info and that link
 
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etmb61

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I've recorded only two ebay sale prices for that model, both were complete and original with plain disc pendulums. They sold for $1378 and $1500 USD. Terwilliger's 1979 silent auction has two sold, lot 45 for $1576.44 and lot 46 for $1310.

There are some more recent prices online from auction houses that exceed those prices.

There are about 8 more listed in the recently seen for sale section of the Torsion Times, all but two in the upper price range ($1000 to $3000).

The subject clock has an early JUF pendulum, a replacement base, and probably a replacement dome as well. That should factor into the price.

Eric
 
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Darrmann39

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I've recorded only two ebay sale prices for that model, both were complete and original with plain disc pendulums. They sold for $1378 and $1500 USD. Terwilliger's 1979 silent auction has two sold, lot 45 for $1576.44 and lot 46 for $1310.

There are some more recent prices online from auction houses that far exceed these prices!

The subject clock has an early JUF pendulum, a replacement base, and probably a replacement dome as well. That should factor into the price.

Eric
Wow, could you clarify the JUF meaning. Thanks
 

Darrmann39

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The clock maker Jahresuhren-Fabrik GmbH.

Eric
Are they common on these as a lot of the pics I'm now finding have these pendulums. Also i noticed in the pics i just put up on the 1st one the tall dome like the one I'm bidding on. Was that common. Makes me think it could be original

Screenshot_20210127-201500_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20210127-183623_Gallery.jpg
 

etmb61

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Are they common on these as a lot of the pics I'm now finding have these pendulums. Also i noticed in the pics i just put up on the 1st one the tall dome like the one I'm bidding on. Was that common. Makes me think it could be original

View attachment 634863 View attachment 634865
The examples you provide all have proper Becker pendulums. The top and bottom discs of the decorative gallery (with the screws) are different sizes. That's the easy way to tell if the pendulum is a Becker part. The JUF pendulum with your original subject clock was discontinued about 6 years before Becker made their skeleton movements. None of the other examples I've located have that JUF pendulum. It's an obvious marriage. The good news is there are plenty of Becker pendulums available because they used them into the 1920s.


Here is a side by side to show the differences:
becker23_JUF21.jpg

Eric
 
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Darrmann39

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The examples you provide all have proper Becker pendulums. The top and bottom discs of the decorative gallery (with the screws) are different sizes. That's the easy way to tell if the pendulum is a Becker part. The JUF pendulum with your original subject clock was discontinued about 6 years before Becker made their skeleton movements. None of the other examples I've located have that JUF pendulum. It's an obvious marriage. The good news is there are plenty of Becker pendulums available because that used them into the 1920s.


Here is a side by side to show the differences:
View attachment 634867

Eric
Ok i see now
 

etmb61

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It's all in the details. If the price stays low I'd consider it a "find" even without the correct pendulum. I'm always looking for a find.

BTW, all of the skeleton clocks I've recorded so far have serial numbers begining with 213 (2131305 and 2135670 are the boundries).

Eric
 
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Darrmann39

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The examples you provide all have proper Becker pendulums. The top and bottom discs of the decorative gallery (with the screws) are different sizes. That's the easy way to tell if the pendulum is a Becker part. The JUF pendulum with your original subject clock was discontinued about 6 years before Becker made their skeleton movements. None of the other examples I've located have that JUF pendulum. It's an obvious marriage. The good news is there are plenty of Becker pendulums available because they used them into the 1920s.


Here is a side by side to show the differences:
View attachment 634867

Eric
So I'm pretty sure I'll get this and was wondering about the pendulum. I see another one on ebay i could get for parts with a correct pendulum. Would year of pendulum matter? It's obviously a little more polished so that will also be a difference or will the important thing it having the correct pendulum? The pic is the one for parts. Funny thing is the only one i found for parts probably would take little to get running lol.

20210201_183902.jpg Screenshot_20210201-183848_eBay.jpg
 

etmb61

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The clock will work with practically any torsion pendulum. The rest is up to you. I personally like to have the correct type parts for the year and model of the clock. For a Becker skeleton clock that means this one:
pend features.jpg

Becker had different quality levels for the models of their clocks. The lower quality parts, like your parts clock, are easy to find. The example I've shown that came with skeleton clocks is not.

Eric
 

Darrmann39

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The clock will work with practically any torsion pendulum. The rest is up to you. I personally like to have the correct type parts for the year and model of the clock. For a Becker skeleton clock that means this one:
View attachment 635691

Becker had different quality levels for the models of their clocks. The lower quality parts, like your parts clock, are easy to find. The example I've shown that came with skeleton clocks is not.

Eric
Yes i saw that between the smooth top and the ones with screws. That's why i asked. Thanks.
 

Darrmann39

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The clock will work with practically any torsion pendulum. The rest is up to you. I personally like to have the correct type parts for the year and model of the clock. For a Becker skeleton clock that means this one:
View attachment 635691

Becker had different quality levels for the models of their clocks. The lower quality parts, like your parts clock, are easy to find. The example I've shown that came with skeleton clocks is not.

Eric
Since you seem to have so much knowledge any way you could provide a pic of the correct suspension spring guard? This one's missing
I saw some i can get but he had a few different ones and i want to make sure i get the correct one for this clock
 

etmb61

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Since you seem to have so much knowledge any way you could provide a pic of the correct suspension spring guard? This one's missing
I saw some i can get but he had a few different ones and i want to make sure i get the correct one for this clock
Certainly! It would be this one:
1.jpg

And you should have this suspension bracket:
1.jpg

Eric
 
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etmb61

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Hard to see but the bracket looks the same and although not connected all suspension spring parts are there. What size spring would that take i have a .0023 and a .0032
The book says .0040" for a Becker pendulum. That's were I'd start. The JUF pendulum sometimes needs a .0045" spring thinned down to work properly. I try to keep both sizes on hand. It's not unusual to find disc pendulums that have been altered to make the clock work with whatever spring the repair person had available.

Eric
 
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Darrmann39

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The book says .0040" for a Becker pendulum. That's were I'd start. The JUF pendulum sometimes needs a .0045" spring thinned down to work properly. I try to keep both sizes on hand. It's not unusual to find disc pendulums that have been altered to make the clock work with whatever spring the repair person had available.

Eric
Thanks, have them coming. I have it and it's from the first run with a serial number of 2131461. Needs a couple screws one holding the pallet and the other secures the top bracket on suspension spring. That ones there just a half of screw.
Pretty dirty and the adjustable screw for lack of real term holding the verge is really scraped up but doesn't seem to be effecting the beat which seems fine doing by hand.
Have it broke down already cleaning up. Have the spring guard with screws coming to.
Can you use screws from other verge the screw to the bracket that holds the fork. Not sure i said all that right

20210205_120449.jpg 20210205_121045.jpg 20210205_121405.jpg 20210205_121411.jpg 20210205_121430.jpg
 

Darrmann39

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Appears to be in the first batch of these clocks. See what John wrote here:

Gustav Becker Skeleton Clocks | NAWCC Forums

Kurt
Yes I've read all that and based on that is is in first batch. Cleaned up pretty nice. Now I'm just waiting for the suspension springs. Think i will see if i can find someone who cuts glass to see if they can make my globe shorter to fit better since it's obviously a replacement.
Thanks for all the input.

20210205_171057.jpg 20210205_171108.jpg 20210205_171113.jpg 20210205_171245.jpg 20210205_171257.jpg 20210205_171612.jpg
 

Darrmann39

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Certainly! It would be this one:
View attachment 635829

And you should have this suspension bracket:
View attachment 635830

Eric
Do you know if the adjustable verge holder of that's the correct term is replaceable?
And if one of these in the pic would work. 1st pics mine, Mine is really gouged up and I'm not positive it needs to be moved but at this point can't really adjust. Got my suspension spring and got the beat adjusted but won't stay going. I'll look tomorrow more at the forks I'm sure they were moved and could need adjusted but just curious about that

20210205_121430.jpg Screenshot_20210209-212912_eBay.jpg
 

etmb61

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Do you know if the adjustable verge holder of that's the correct term is replaceable?
And if one of these in the pic would work. 1st pics mine, Mine is really gouged up and I'm not positive it needs to be moved but at this point can't really adjust. Got my suspension spring and got the beat adjusted but won't stay going. I'll look tomorrow more at the forks I'm sure they were moved and could need adjusted but just curious about that

View attachment 637246 View attachment 637247
It's referred to as an "eccentric nut" in the repair guide but it's really a bushing. Yes it can be replaced. I know I've read in an article somewhere about how to do it. I just have to find it now. They are staked into a tapered bore so I don't think you would be able to take one from another movement. You would probably need to make one.

Eric
 
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whatgoesaround

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That is definitely not a good sign. When chewed up like that it will probably be next to impossible to adjust. What has happened is that the screwdriver has a tapered edge and as it is trying to turn the eccentric, it slides out damaging the sides of the eccentric slot. One thing that may also be true, however, is that since it is so scarred it is likely that the original repairer/butcher could not move it and it is possibly in the correct position still. So, I would continue, for now, with other adjustments. My first experience in adjusting one of these was quite fortunate in that the eccentric would fall out whenever I pushed on it. This would not be expected to happen at all, but because of that, through multiple movements and reassemblies, I was able to get it running and is still going years later. So, perhaps it is possible to tap it out, but I would not attempt such a thing until the much more knowledgeable members can tell you if they would recommend it.
 
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Darrmann39

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That is definitely not a good sign. When chewed up like that it will probably be next to impossible to adjust. What has happened is that the screwdriver has a tapered edge and as it is trying to turn the eccentric, it slides out damaging the sides of the eccentric slot. One thing that may also be true, however, is that since it is so scarred it is likely that the original repairer/butcher could not move it and it is possibly in the correct position still. So, I would continue, for now, with other adjustments. My first experience in adjusting one of these was quite fortunate in that the eccentric would fall out whenever I pushed on it. This would not be expected to happen at all, but because of that, through multiple movements and reassemblies, I was able to get it running and is still going years later. So, perhaps it is possible to tap it out, but I would not attempt such a thing until the much more knowledgeable members can tell you if they would recommend it.
So i think your right i don't think it was moved. They did move the adjustable palets tho and that's what i think I'm dealing with. It's been running for about an hour and a half on the adjustment i did to them. I'm a beginner and have know knowledge of how to adjust these. I'm looking at my other 400 day clock to get an idea. Finding very little instructional material. If any body has some diagrams or links to how to adjust would be appreciated
 

Darrmann39

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It's referred to as an "eccentric nut" in the repair guide but it's really a bushing. Yes it can be replaced. I know I've read in an article somewhere about how to do it. I just have to find it now. They are staked into a tapered bore so I don't think you would be able to take one from another movement. You would probably need to make one.

Eric
I really appreciate all your help. Amazingly after the third adjustment of the palets it's been swinging all day and keeping perfect time. Beginners luck because i was going in blind. Just looking at other ones i had.
I'm not messing with that eccentric nut. Ugly but in correct position
 
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whatgoesaround

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Darrmann39, I am glad to hear that you were able to get it going. Adjusting the pallets is not necessarily an easy task, so kudos. First, to obtain a Becker skeleton is incredibly fortunate. There are many of us who would love to be that lucky. Then, to get the pallets after three tries. You are doing well; sounds like you and that clock were just meant to be.
 
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Darrmann39

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Darrmann39, I am glad to hear that you were able to get it going. Adjusting the pallets is not necessarily an easy task, so kudos. First, to obtain a Becker skeleton is incredibly fortunate. There are many of us who would love to be that lucky. Then, to get the pallets after three tries. You are doing well; sounds like you and that clock were just meant to be.
Thanks I'm very happy with it. This forum is amazing with the knowledge you get. Appreciate all the help from before i bought it till now.
It's still running strong. Adjusted the small weights to get it to speed up and it's getting real close on time to my cheap kundo that is perfectly in time.
 
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Darrmann39

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The plate under pendulum suggest it is a wurth pendulum You have with this clock.
I knew it wasn't original, it was mentioned before i bought it possibly a JUH pendulum. I have a bit later pendulum GB i bought with a parts clock until i can find an appropriate one coming
 

etmb61

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The extra brass plate in the bottom of the pendulum probably did come from the Wurth clock of that number. I have other Wurth clocks in my records in that number range with similar marked discs installed underneath the pendulum discs, but the pendulum itself is a JUF part.

Eric
 
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