Gustav Becker gathering pallet

[GregS]

HI All,

I need to make a new gathering pallet for this Gustav Becker wall clock (it was missing when the previous owner bought it 15 years ago). Problem is, I'm not exactly sure what it looks like. I am hoping one of you have a close up photo of one from a similar vintage movement.

In addition I hoping to get some guidelines on the diameter of the pallets gathering pin (I think I could ball park it from measurements of the racks teeth but it would certainly be better to know what the factory used) .

And most of all, how do you make a tapered square hole that is only .043" at its widest point (side to side). The steel of the rack and other striking parts are 0.053 thick and I have procured some that is 0.057".

Any help you can provide would be much appreciated.

Here's some photos that will hopefully help.

If you need other photos, just let me know.

Thank you.

 

[R&A]

It will look very similar to this gathering pallet, with a bit of a curve to it. You can take and drill a hole through the pallet and then make a square shaft and drive it through to create the fore sides for the arbor. If it is tapered, then make it tapered and hammer it into the hole, in the piece to create a square taper. These are made out of metal. The pin size only has to gather the rack. To big it will jam. I'm thinking maybe .034 to .040 for the in size. You will want to use pivot steel. I flatten a small part of the end and stake it in from the back side. The small flat at about .050 long will secure it in place. You might want to think about cleaning this movement. It's in need of it bad. Or you can see the one I posted below. You can install a brass bushing in the hole. It would make it easier to taper a square. You need to make it so it is long enough to lock out on the pin comming off the left side of the rack. And short enough that it will drop off and release in warning.

H/C

 

[leeinv66]

The gathering pallet needs to be little more than a wedge to work, but on these they made them look fancy.

 

[shutterbug]

That's the design I remember on them.

 

[GregS]

Thanks H.C. Yes, this movement has not been cleaned yet. I thought I would make the gathering pallet and get that working before I took the movement apart for cleaning and repairs. The tapered punch is a great idea. I think I should be able to grind one from a nail setting punch.

Peter, your movement looks much closer to mine. Thanks for posting! Is this your clock? If so, any chance you could get a close up shot of the GP? Do you agree that it is long enough to lock on the pin at the left apex of the rack when the striking is complete? I am thinking that is the mechanism that stops the striking train. I would like to make this as close to original as possible. I'm just not sure.

Maybe Mr. Hubby will come along with some dating information.

Anyone else have ideas/photos?

Thank you!

 

[leeinv66]

Peter, your movement looks much closer to mine. Thanks for posting! Is this your clock? If so, any chance you could get a close up shot of the GP? Do you agree that it is long enough to lock on the pin at the left apex of the rack when the striking is complete? I am thinking that is the mechanism that stops the striking train. I would like to make this as close to original as possible. I'm just not sure.

No it is not my movement. It was a picture I stored when I was working on a Resch two weight that was missing the GP. I don't believe the GP stops the strike train. I believe the strike lever where it extends into the movement from behind the rack does that.

 

[Tinker Dwight]

Don't drill and put the pin in until you know where the timing
is best. It must lift the rack hook just as the pin is engaging
and drop it just before the pin leaves the rack.
Tinker Dwight

 

[GregS]

Don't drill and put the pin in until you know where the timing
is best. It must lift the rack hook just as the pin is engaging
and drop it just before the pin leaves the rack.

Good point. Having to time this is made much harder due to the square arbor. Not like those on round arbor where you can just pop off the GP, turn it a little and press it back on. Getting the pin and the tapered square hole properly aligned should be lots of fun!

 

[leeinv66]

Good point. Having to time this is made much harder due to the square arbor. Not like those on round arbor where you can just pop off the GP, turn it a little and press it back on. Getting the pin and the tapered square hole properly aligned should be lots of fun!

As the arbor the GP is attached to turns through 360 degrees, it is always going to end up back in the same place after each rotation. So, as long as it starts/finishes clear of the rack, it will work. The square end on your arbor makes it easy to set the GP as there are only four positions where it will fit I believe the right way for your movement is to have it pointing left on a horizontal plane.

 

[GregS]

Hi Peter,

I'm still thinking through this and I believe you are correct. I guess I was thinking that more care would be needed to time the strike train wheels as there ARE only four positions the GP can be set to making the square hole in the GB more critical. BTW, I was going through the many pages of the posts in the Clocks forum for a better picture and I found this one some twenty pages in on the "Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here" thread. I'm sure it too late for you but I think this helps solidify that I'm on the right track. Thought you would be interested as well. This is an exact match to my movement from all I can see. Interesting that you where working on a Resch as I finished up a Gebruder Resch O.V.R.M. Co. regulator with the "remember" logo just a few months ago. I had David LaBounty re-pivot the winding arbor for me (absolutely amazing work). This was a time only movement and was a real pleasure to work on.

Best Regards.

 

[leeinv66]

Ok, I see from that how the extra weight of the tail is used to aid the initial progress of the GP in this design. That wasn't needed with the Resch movement I have. That said, I think we are both making assumptions on where the GP should be when it is at rest. We don't actually know where either of these movement are in their strike cycle, we are just guessing they are at rest

 

[Walesey]

I think that the large photo that H/C posted might have been of my clock. It is a GB Dual Chime GF, so might not be very close to yours GregoryJohn. I do have a RSM Regulator that looks similar to your GB. I have a photo that I can load now, but if you think it is of interest to you, I may be able to have a closer look and take more detailed photo's when I get home.

Photo of RSM front plate, showing Gathering Pallet


Cheers

Walesey

 

[GregS]

Thanks for the offer Walesey! I see from your photo that we have yet another GB GP design. :cyclops: Similar, but different enough. No need for you to tear your clock apart. I think I can infer the shape and scale of the GP from photos that I've managed to find and using the known size of the square hole as a unit of measurement.

The only thing I wish I had was photo of the GP's underside. That would show for sure whether it used a pin or metal tang as your appears to use.

First thing I hope to do this weekend is grind a tapered punch and practice making the square hole. H.C., Tinker and Peter have all been encouraging in their suggestions and advice. Thanks guys!

 

[Walesey]

Now, GregoryJohn, my regulator is NOT actually a GB. It is an RSM, but they were very similar to GB's of similar vintage. (I think they must have had spies in each other's factories! ) I attached the photos just to give you an idea as to what the GP might have been like in that type of clock. (You will note that a number of my levers are very similar to yours.)

At the moment, my RSM is in bits, and all the levers, rack, GP, etc are in a tin and VERY accessible. I have taken some shots of my GP, but remember, yours will NOT be identical, but may well be similar in concept. I ope this helps.

I think (from memory) that the short extension gathers the teeth on the rack and the long tail catches on a pin to stop the strike, or something similar.



Cheers
Walesey

 

[GregS]

Now, GregoryJohn, my regulator is NOT actually a GB. It is an RSM, but they were very similar to GB's of similar vintage.

Hey Walesey, sorry about that! In my haste to get out of the house and on to my day job, the RSM went right over my head. Thanks so much for the photos. I think there are some significant differences between your GP and the one I need, but, every bit of information is helpful! It wouldn't surprise me one bit if there wasn't a bunch of "corporate espionage" going on between completing clock makers.

I think (from memory) that the short extension gathers the teeth on the rack and the long tail catches on a pin to stop the strike, or something similar.

Yes, I agree 100%, except in my case I believe the GP used a pin instead of the metal tang. And I agree that the 'tail' on the GP bangs into and is stopped by the pin on the rack, thus stopping the strike. See photo in post #10. click on the image after viewing to make it full size. You can see a shiny spot the rack pin where the GP has hit it and you can just barely see what appears to be a pin at the other end.

I've made a square tapered punch as H.C. suggested and tested that and it worked very well. Now I am trying to come up with the over all dimensions using the movement and the known square hole size as guidelines.

Greg

 

[GregS]

Re: Gustav Becker gathering pallet [Completed]

Hi All,

Just thought I would post some photos of my process in making a GP for this Gustav Becker.
First I did a lot of research in the archives and especially the "Post your Gustav Becker Clocks Here" post in the Clocks forum.

If you scroll to post one you can see photos of my movement with the GP sadly missing.
On post #10 I show a photo I found of a movement exactly like mine. This gave me the general look and shape of the GP.

So, after much measuring and hand wringing, I came up with a paper cut out of the pallet as I believed it should be.




The next problem to tackle was the square tapered arbor the GP is mounted on. H.C. suggested a punch ground square and so I set out to make that. I simply reground a basic nail set punch so it matched the taper on the arbor.




Then the tricky part, determining diameter of the pin and the distance from the center of the square arbor. I used small piece of material and tried several values from arbor and pin sizes. Smaller is definitely better. I ended up with a pin of .0225 dia. and ~.090 from the arbor center. This little testing piece probably saved me from making 3 or 4 GP before getting it right.




And here is the GP rough cut from stock using a small jewelers saw. To make the square hole, I first drilled a .042" hole, then drove in my tapered square punch which formed the square hole. I was very careful to get the rotation of the square hole aligned just right so that the strike hammer falls just before the GP is stopped by the pin on the rack.





Here it is again with the pin installed and ground to its final dimensions.





Whew! And finally, a perfectly working GP mounted on the movement.





All in all I'm happy with it. Obviously not what GB would have produced but it saves another clock. I just want add a big thanks for all the support and for this forum. I think it's time to make another cash donation to the forum.

Cheers,
Greg

 

[David S]

Re: Gustav Becker gathering pallet [Completed]

Great work Greg. I love it when people make stuff to get these old clocks ticking again. Thank you for posting your progress.

 

[Tinker Dwight]

Re: Gustav Becker gathering pallet [Completed]

"Only her hair dresser knows for sure"
Great repair.
Tinker Dwight

 

[shutterbug]

Re: Gustav Becker gathering pallet [Completed]

That's using the 'ol noodle! Great approach!

 

[Jay Fortner]

Re: Gustav Becker gathering pallet [Completed]

All in all I'm happy with it. Obviously not what GB would have produced but it saves another clock. I just want add a big thanks for all the support and for this forum. I think it's time to make another cash donation to the forum.

Cheers,
Greg

Nice craftsmanship! I don't think a modern clockmaker would suspect that's not original. Cash contributions are good but the contribution of that quality repair far exceeds anything money can buy.

 

[R&A]

Nice GP.

H/C