$ Gustav Becker 3 WT Vienna

Is this the bogus or real deal?

  • Bogus

  • Real


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Salsagev

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Feb 6, 2020
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Hello, I’ve just bought this Vienna Regulator ($80) a few days ago. It has three weights. The first thing that I noticed was it's lack of carvings. Is that normal? I decided to post a thread here instead the Gustav Becker forum because of its issues. Then, that beat scale looks odd for this type of clock. I took it off and seen three holes. The scale is mounted with two and one screw going diagonal into the case (taper pins for some accessories are missing).
A64E4ACE-FAE5-4A4B-9483-C4D46FCD8610.jpeg I cleaned some of the rust off: A4311167-058A-45DE-AE4F-9067F7C083E7.jpeg
The case has a hole in the middle and the levels are missing which is strange. Now the case is not level on the wall. 3B6287C9-9B4A-42C2-9EA8-72E166187818.jpeg C46FDAA7-A7BD-4A4B-8A8A-D9CDCC26B977.jpeg 332D3FEB-A799-4FB1-982C-8411A52CB7AE.jpeg 8822E330-C9AD-4A6E-9868-EFA3A3E12886.jpeg A3DB2EB7-BCB7-44C6-9936-7174BC28B143.jpeg 22680221-7FF3-43B8-886C-AA94AA1DCBF1.png
The movement: 6239D11D-0CAC-41FE-A85A-DC98ED5843EE.jpeg 8B6657BA-59C9-4108-A092-028111AA906A.jpeg 11B8E189-F112-4DD8-81A1-86EECA0B62BD.jpeg 966DA933-4193-4AA3-B24F-A3C56F93DE8E.jpeg As shown, the movement number is 615531 p27. Some unusual things I noticed was the plate that needed to be pressed in order to release the movement. Nice feature! The cat gut has gone bad but should be replaceable. During testing, i noticed this is only petite Sonnerie? Strange.
The rod gongs: B28D9C3C-AE9D-4DE0-8FCC-900532567665.jpeg 86E6E0C6-E131-420C-BDFE-E5CD45C7FFD9.jpeg The rods are shorter than i expected, unlike some stuff I saw on youtube. chimeclockfan for identification!
The rest of the clock: 358759B2-9663-426B-912E-63F9C4A0E79A.jpeg 48AB4CDA-F1FC-4690-B94E-069C30882812.jpeg
One thing I am really concerned about is this: 2CF381E9-A05D-40CD-ABA2-271AEE103594.jpeg 00EA01CB-B72B-4428-8674-1135381BE915.jpeg 34C5F43A-DFE0-48F9-8C33-A348AB47C62C.jpeg E9154807-6C74-4FFF-BD92-1070897C66D5.jpeg There are a bunch of holes that i hope did not house a different movement.
Last thing is that I don't know which weight is for which train. EAB33514-9097-4376-80F2-0CE387B6B1BE.jpeg

Here is a list of points for (hopefully) easier navigation(first time using a computer to do a thread).


  • Gustav Becker clock with the serial number "615531 p27".
  • Case is missing levels and case has a (repro?) beat scale.
  • Movement cat gut has gone bad.
  • Clock has two chime rods that are short.
  • Maybe petite sonnerie striking sequence.
  • Has a "push to release" system for movement removal.
  • Case is not level because it "rocks" side-to-side against the wall.
  • Case does not have carvings.
  • Case has "patched; filled" holes that could have been for a different movement.
  • Weights are quite heavy.


Any help/advice or information highly appreciated. Thanks! A4438964-6F40-494D-A661-002C8FACA3EB.jpeg 7DDF4082-0D1F-46C8-8112-58AE1B6C5FD5.jpeg
 

Kevin W.

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Apr 11, 2002
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Why would you think bogus, nice find.
 

new2clocks

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Apr 25, 2005
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Did you inspect this clock, either in person or with detailed photos such as the pictures you provided? If, not, then I suggest you do so in the future to avoid these "surprises" that you have noted in this thread.

lack of carvings. Is that normal?
Are you referring to finials? If you are, these "trim pieces" are often lost or broken over the years. Not unusual.

that beat scale looks odd for this type of clock.
I agree, though I am not an expert on Beckers. This would not bother me, but if you are not satisfied, look for a beat scale that is more contemporaneous with the age of the clock.

Case is not level because it "rocks" side-to-side against the wall.
Why does it rock side-to-side? Does the case "swing" on the wall? Are there hooks / hardware for wall stabilizers? Some clocks have them, some do not .

Case has "patched; filled" holes that could have been for a different movement.
This is the issue you should concentrate on the most. The Becker experts should opine on the year(s) that movement was manufactured. The case has a look of 1890 to maybe 1915 or so.

Does the backboard of the case look distinctly different from the rest of the case? Differences such as age, type of wood, etc. The pictures of the backboard appear to show filled-in holes, possibly from another movement.

Others will give their opinions on the issues on which I have commented and, hopefully, your other issues.

Regards.
 

Salsagev

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Feb 6, 2020
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This is the issue you should concentrate on the most. The Becker experts should opine on the year(s) that movement was manufactured. The case has a look of 1890 to maybe 1915 or so.
I did not inspect the clock closely when I got it.
Does the backboard of the case look distinctly different from the rest of the case? Differences such as age, type of wood, etc. The pictures of the backboard appear to show filled-in holes, possibly from another movement.
No, although there is the small tip of the screw that sticks out the back.
Are you referring to finials? If you are, these "trim pieces" are often lost or broken over the years. Not unusual.
On my other Vienna, there is small butterfly carving on the triangle thing on the bottom.
Why does it rock side-to-side? Does the case "swing" on the wall? Are there hooks / hardware for wall stabilizers? Some clocks have them, some do not .
It seems the entire bottom wood assembly has somewhat of an curved angle.
Are there hooks / hardware for wall stabilizers
No, that’s why it seemed weird.
 

new2clocks

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Apr 25, 2005
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The case has a look of 1890 to maybe 1915 or so.
SN dates to the latter quarter of 1912.
This is good news. The movement was manufactured in the latter part of the time period this case style was popular.

It is possible that your backboard is a replacement backboard that a pervious owner may have used when the original backboard split or was somehow damaged.

Regards.
 

Salsagev

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Feb 6, 2020
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It is possible that your backboard is a replacement backboard that a pervious owner may have used when the original backboard split or was somehow damaged
Ah, I hope this is true (over the unhappy marriage scenario).
 

new2clocks

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Apr 25, 2005
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No, although there is the small tip of the screw that sticks out the back.
Wood can shrink. This is not all that uncommon. Either loosen the screw or put a screw in that is not as long.

On my other Vienna, there is small butterfly carving on the triangle thing on the bottom.
I would not worry about lack of carvings.

It seems the entire bottom wood assembly has somewhat of an curved angle.
Do you mean this piece?

1610666172473.png

Regards.
 

Salsagev

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Feb 6, 2020
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Although the backboard has a “V” pattern. Is that normal?
 

new2clocks

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Although the backboard has a “V” pattern. Is that normal?
If you look at your door frame (the actual frame and not the columns), the same pattern appears to show, where the left side of the door frame has one part of the "V" and the right side of the door frame has the other part of the "V".

Regards.
 

Salsagev

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Feb 6, 2020
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If you look at your door frame (the actual frame and not the columns), the same pattern appears to show, where the left side of the door frame has one part of the "V" and the right side of the door frame has the other part of the "V".
Thanks! Nice touch to the clock!
 

new2clocks

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Thanks! Nice touch to the clock!
It is a nice touch, but now you need to figure out the plugged holes. :)

The one unplugged hole towards the bottom of the backboard is probably a homemade stabilizer, where a former owner drilled a hole and screwed the clock into a stud. Could be a former owner's remedy to the "rocking side to side" issue.

Regards.
 

Salsagev

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Feb 6, 2020
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The one unplugged hole towards the bottom of the backboard is probably a homemade stabilizer, where a former owner drilled a hole and screwed the clock into a stud. Could be a former owner's remedy to the "rocking side to side" issue.
I will have to see later. Anyone know anything about the petite sonnerie instead of grande? Are these easy to service?
 

chimeclockfan

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Dec 21, 2006
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The chime rods look acceptable, they were never very intricate on these quarter striking wall clocks. High pitch for quarters, low pitch for hours.
 

jmclaugh

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Jun 1, 2006
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A nice example of its type for a good price. From what I can make out the extra holes on the back board may indicate another rod gong was once fitted there but others will know more about Becker rod gongs. The bayonet mount is a nice feature as it is easier than screws. Servicing a 3 train clock is not for beginners, apologies if you aren't.
 

Salsagev

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Feb 6, 2020
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A nice example of its type for a good price. From what I can make out the extra holes on the back board may indicate another rod gong was once fitted there but others will know more about Becker rod gongs. The bayonet mount is a nice feature as it is easier than screws. Servicing a 3 train clock is not for beginners, apologies if you aren't.
I have done a striking (two train) Vienna but not a three train. The clock is not able to run without replacing the cords. Is this clock supposed to be a grande sonnerie or a petite?
 

jmclaugh

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I have done a striking (two train) Vienna but not a three train. The clock is not able to run without replacing the cords. Is this clock supposed to be a grande sonnerie or a petite?
I've only ever done a single weight VR, That required to be dismantled to replace the gut line and I imagine it will on this clock though others on here will know more about that than me.
 
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