Grosvater clock

Discussion in 'Your Newest Clock Acquisition' started by DR.K, Oct 22, 2019.

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  1. DR.K

    DR.K Registered User

    Oct 10, 2018
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    I secured this ebonizied clock last weekend, seems to be in very good condition. After unpacking and installing pendulum and weights it immediately began running in beat. Maybe someone knows the maker and would help me do the research. To me the trademark looks like a rose separated from the bush surrounded with the initials RMS. 113098 is located beneath.

    IMG_0661.jpg IMG_0660.jpg
     
  2. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    The mark RSM with a rose is that of Reinhold Schnekenburger, in Muelheim.

    JTD
     
  3. Tatyana

    Tatyana Registered User

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    Your clock was made around 1905.

    Here's a close serial number 113082:

    113_082.jpg 113_082___.jpg 113_082__.jpg 113_082_.jpg

    Please add a pics of the gong and the movement.

    BR, Tatyana
     
  4. new2clocks

    new2clocks Registered User
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Apr 25, 2005
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    JTD,

    Do we know for certain when Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim, Müller & Co. no longer use the RSM trademark, and used the "Rose" TM only with "RS" sans the "M"? Doug Stevenson implies that the changeover occurred in 1913 (see below). John Hubby also indicated that 1912 was the last year of the RSM TM that he has in his data base.

    The firm Rup. [for Rupert] Amann Fabrik für Federzug- & Gewicht-Regulateure, of Mülhheim [on the] Donau, in Württemberg, founded in 1867, was sold in 1882 to Reinhold Schnekenburger. It continued as R. Schnekenburger GmbH a.d. Donau -- with the rose with the RSM as a trademark. Then amid financial problems, what by 1900 had become the Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim vorm. [vormals -- earlier known as] R. Schnekenburger was taken over by a creditor, Albert Müller. And on 10 September 1900 (no doubt a semi-sunny day with a touch of rain) became the "Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim, Müller & Co." Indeed.

    Now while the name with the rose changed, so-called regulators were made with it from
    after 1882 dowm at least to the Great War. But more specifically, the Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim, Müller & Co. continued to use the earlier Schnekenburger rose as a mark -- yet without the M under the stem. There's a full-page ad for example from 1913 (reproduced on page 77 of Kahlert's _Uhren 1913_, available through the NAWCC's Library & Research Center) for the Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim, Müller & Co. which shows two marks, one on either side of the bold "Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim." The first is of their lion with the U.M. underneath. The other is of the rose with an R on one side of the stem, and an S on the other. And they made just about everything -- grandfather clocks and wall clocks and alarms and "loose" good quality movements (which others could stick in cases) and so on.


    John Hubby also observed that the RSM TM when used by Schnekenburger (prior to the takeover by UMM) was larger than the same TM that UMM utilized post-takeover. The Schnekenburger TM was 22mm high versus the 12mm height used by UMM. Perhaps Lenn Katzer could provide some measurements:).

    In any event, based on the above and Tatyana's estimate of a 1905 manufacturing date, it could be argued that the OP's clock is technically a UMM clock and not an RSM clock.

    Regards.
     
  5. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    I think it probably could. I deliberately avoided saying anything about the UMM/RSM debate, because I am away from home and all my information and I didn't have the dates in my head - but I knew someone would mention it!

    John Hubby and the late and much missed Doug S. are/were very meticulous researchers and I have no reason to doubt their dates. And I am away from the Lexikon, so can't look to see what H.-H. Schmid wrote.

    JTD
     
  6. DR.K

    DR.K Registered User

    Oct 10, 2018
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    #6 DR.K, Oct 23, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2019
    I did have a photo of the back of the works but not of the gong mechanism but by my observation I feel relatively positive it is identical to the posting by Tatyana. I compared the photos and they are 16 mechanism builds apart but appear to be identical.

    Grossvater mechanism.jpg
     

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