Green Schatz

Discussion in '400-Day & Atmos' started by PedroCortes, Aug 16, 2018.

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  1. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

    Jul 31, 2018
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    Dear all,
    I have this Schatz watch. Currently it is in poor condition because the thread is all twisted. The spring doesn't work and is crooked. Can someone guide me to put it into operation? What thread does it carry? I have to dismantle it to fix the spring?

    Thanks

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  2. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    Pedro -

    I see two things which you're probably referring to. First, the thin suspension spring has a number of twists in it...likely the clock won't run due to that. These springs can be replaced. Schatz Model 49 clocks tend to take a suspension spring that is 0.004" thick. You don't need to disassemble the clock to fix that...just remove the top block from the upper saddle and replace the spring with an exact copy.

    The other thing is the large square winding arbor sticking out the back plate. It looks way bent...makes me wonder how it got that way and what other damage that has caused. It might just make it difficult to wind the main spring or in the worst situation, the main spring barrel might not be free to turn on the arbor once it is wound up. I would think that needs to be looked into which means the clock would need to come part. But in order to do that, the power (if there is any) that is in the main spring must be released other wise things are going to go boom and fly around creating more damage when you take the back plate off. Not sure how the arbor gets fixed...I would be looked for a parts clock to steal a new winding arbor from...if that's all that's wrong.

    Kurt
     
  3. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

    Jul 31, 2018
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    Change the suspension spring I think it's quite easy. I just have to buy one of 0.004 thick and change it.

    Yes, the large square shaft that protrudes from the back plate is indeed very crooked. The lady who gave it to me didn't have much delicacy and she forced it for a long time thinking that in this way she would make it work. From what I've seen, there's no more damage. Look at this video.

    I think the clock is that power free. You think it's viable to dismantle it. Do you think that a novice can repair it satisfactorily? I send you a photo so you can give me your opinion about whether it's properly mounted. The lady gave it to me with the screw removed and I tried to mount it.

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  4. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    Thank you very much for your support and for helping me to enter this exciting world.
     
  5. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    I see where you moved the square arbor with your figures. That seems to suggest there's no power on the main spring. But, generally that arbor shouldn't move that much by finger. That seems to say that there are other issues.

    Kurt
     
  6. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

    Jul 31, 2018
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    Good morning.
    Today I woke up wanting to fix the clock. I have started to dismantle it. Now I am in this complicated step and I don't know where to start. I'm afraid of being able to break something. I would like to change the spring. I send you the photos with the steps that I have followed in case someone can help me.

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  7. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    Does anyone know how I can start? What steps can I follow to not be wrong?

    What does the number 1 and the number 53 written on the plate mean?

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  8. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    I have disarmed and now I have the clock in this situation.

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  9. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    I see that the spring has the shaft twisted.

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  10. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    Nov 24, 2014
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    You made great progress! The "1 53" is the build date of the clock, January 1953. From the picture, the bent arbor appears to only be bent on the outside and that it might not have affected the barrel or its cover. If that were the case and I had a better handle on dealing with metal, the trick would be to heat the square end of the arbor to soften it and then carefully bend it back into shape. The arbor would then need to be treated properly to retain the metal properties...I think it's called annealing. I've never been good with that stuff.

    To get at the main spring, you first need to get the cover off. I put the whole barrel in my hand with the long exposed arbor sticking through my fingers. Then with a plastic head hammer...a piece of hardwood would probably do...hit the arbor on the short side with a few good whacks and the cover is pushed off. Then the arbor can be pulled out. At that point, you really need a spring winder and associated attachments to wind the spring and pull it out of the barrel.

    Kurt
     
  11. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    It has been fun to disassemble a watch for the first time.
    I have not found it very difficult.
    I remember that you sent me this video.



    Is this what I would have to do? I guess straightening the shaft will be easy ... little by little I will put it straight with delicacy.
     
  12. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    Thanks for this information!!
     
  13. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    The video does show the process of removing a spring from a barrel and reinstalling it. He said he spent about $90 for the winder and tools...I'm sure he spent a bit of time building all that. A brand new purpose-built winder (Ollie Baker) can be bought for a little over $200...used ones less than that. The Ollie Baker has nice features built in.

    A couple of things about the video that I saw. One is that he has no way of holding the tension in the wound up spring as he's removing it. He has the big bar at the end...if for some reason that gets lose or looses grip, that bar is going to spin around and can be painful if it hits your hand or arm. Important to remember that. Second, if I'm not mistaken, the spring he took out of that barrel was actually installed backwards. Maybe that was just the purpose of setting up his video. But it should have been reversed. If the spring is put in backwards, the clock won't work.

    Kurt
     
  14. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    I see that fixing this spring can be dangerous for a novice like me. I don't want it to go off and it can hurt my eye. I don't know exactly what happens to this spring because I don't dare to open it. to see if I hurt myself. I send you these pictures where you see that the shaft is twisted and the drum is deformed. I hope the photos help you see the situation.

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  15. KurtinSA

    KurtinSA Registered User
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    On the one hand, I've seen deformed barrels that have worked out OK. But, the troubling thing with your barrel is that there is a gap opened up between the rivet and the brass of the barrel. That suggests quite a bit of deformation and likely the rivet connection is weakened. It would be best to either get some kind of professional to repair that or buy a new barrel assembly. These spring barrels are not specific to 400-Day clocks. So, if you can find a good regular clock repair man, they could be able to close up this deformed hole and put in another rivet or spring hook on the other side of the barrel. Many spring-wound clocks have this type of arrangement.

    Kurt
     
  16. Harry Hopkins

    Harry Hopkins Registered User
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    Three problems with the barrel need repaired. The arbor must be straightened and the bulge in the barrel reformed and you need to ensure the barrel hook is tight. If the hook seems the least bit loose after reforming the barrel then it needs to be tightened or moved to another location. I don't consider any of those jobs an easy fix for a beginner. Your movement is a common movement and there are lots of parts available for these on Ebay and from Horolovar. I would be willing to bet that Chris at Horolovar would have an entire mainspring unit (barrel, spring and arbor) for less than the cost of investing in a spring winder. If you are good with tools and wish to do the work yourself I understand that also and we will do what we can to talk you through it.
     
  17. PedroCortes

    PedroCortes Registered User

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    Thank you very much for the support! I have met here in Italy a watchmaker who fixes me for 20 euros.
    I thank you so much for your support.
     

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