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German Great Deal On a Rare Jacques B&D Monastery Clock

Salsagev

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Hi, I have decided to purchase this B&W (Bawo and Dotter) “gothic” or “beehive” mantle clock. I believe it’s a pretty rare model. I only saw a few examples on the web and here. It chimes “Trinity” on 6 gongs and Westminster on 4. According to chimeclockfan Isaac, this is a Monastery grade movement. I hope this clock can shed some light on these series/models.
Starting off (first looks):
Everything is intact and looks original. The seller had stated that it was used not too long ago (meant it was taken care of). The clock is very clean and in a beautiful state for its age. The clock had some very minor “alligatoring”. That should not be a problem.
D42AE208-655D-4A4C-8227-C39B0B896824.jpeg 2F7D56D0-7A39-4887-BFFC-2E7E234244FD.jpeg 06325CB4-28F3-4F07-8F8F-911016212416.jpeg 9C2AA0CB-7128-4794-8232-78FF15F3C32C.jpeg 7C89CEAB-7C00-463B-8F45-5E2055667C31.jpeg F3C910FF-BCCB-4D22-A730-47CB3684D797.jpeg I noticed the dial has the name of a jeweler in Boston (A. Stowell & Co). If you look closely at the dial, there is a MANUFACTURING ERROR.:devil: Anybody notice it?
1A184ED4-AA89-4045-8BE0-FDD0DF54202D.jpeg
The movement:
I noticed the movement is very “square and beefy”. The movement is held in by a flat head screw and some movement post screws. The small “dog tag” inside the clock reads: H 1/2 6/4. Anybody knows what that means? The plate also read: Peerless B&D LIMITED 18 and below that read: Germany 209045 L. 202C6943-F533-43D7-9F89-9938E2409B01.jpeg 97C8743D-E3EF-4DE6-A93C-B7413C8AD0B5.jpeg 880D7A91-3474-4794-BDF9-D9D8EA657185.jpeg 613745CA-6C43-48DC-8F22-41981B64929F.jpeg 4D785474-2B6D-40C2-AB1E-A8135DAFD015.jpeg 91049ED5-E787-444C-83D2-DCD049B66C84.jpeg
The gongs:
The gongs are very heavy and solid. I laugh at the fact that the gongs seem to contain more brass than some movement. Is there a reason for that much brass? The unit is at least a pound if not more. It was rusty at first but cleaned it off it’s some slick lube. 60773E27-0C74-4A0A-BB61-AEA95586A1C5.jpeg C9D47D17-C286-4577-BBEA-ACC2463D063F.jpeg 17357C3B-4E6B-4BF0-8C2B-B508D68F0BDF.jpeg
There’s lots of “stamps” here and there on the clock. 207E5AEC-3E6D-4119-980F-4F1FF687F3DA.jpeg Small erving on pendulum. Overall, the clock is pretty nice IMO. What does any of you think? Thanks!
Bawo & Dotter Peerless plays Westminster chimes
Bawo & Dotter Peerless plays Trinity chimes
361D2002-B7D7-42D6-8FC8-C9FE0B5ED8E9.jpeg 1171E483-E90B-4EC5-A99E-C258B94823AC.jpeg 5640C9F0-5B7E-4799-BD9D-BB10AADF962C.jpeg
 

chimeclockfan

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Dec 21, 2006
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This is such a fantastic clock! Best Trinity chime on coil gongs so far, and a nice case to go with it. Movement H 1/2, 6/4 would refer to a spring driven movement with the six coil gongs and chorded hour strike. As we've discussed in recent messages, the Peerless and Monastery grades on mantel chime clocks were largely interchangeable and the Trinity/Westminster chime mantel movements were a later addition to the Jacques lineup. Your clock was made somewhere between 1911-1914, the serial number may or may not narrow it down further.

Movement lacquering is typical for a Peerless grade movement and is very ornate. You did an especially good job cleaning up the steel coil gongs, this is often ignored by many professionals who leave the gongs all rusty - bad for sound, bad for gongs! The misspelling of 'Triniti' is a very minor goof considering just how amazing this clock is. The German movement suppliers were not really into all the American chimes Jacques outlined and invariably it took a few tries to get the naming correct on the chime selector rings. Remember these were still mass-produced clocks and there was only so much time to check everything, especially during the early years when these clocks were being designed. Some earlier clocks simply label the Whittington and Trinity chimes as 'Chime on Eight Bells' and 'Chime on Six Bells' respectively.

I don't know how many Jacques mantel chime clocks survive but they're fairly uncommon compared to the more familiar Winterhalder gong chime clocks. I could not find the dual chime Jacques mantel clocks listed in "the book" but here is some stuff from 1910:

Monastery H.JPG Movement H.JPG
242.JPG 181.JPG
 

Salsagev

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Feb 6, 2020
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This is such a fantastic clock! Best Trinity chime on coil gongs so far, and a nice case to go with it.
Thanks!
Remember these were still mass-produced clocks and there was only so much time to check everything, especially during the early years when these clocks were being designed. Some earlier clocks simply label the Whittington and Trinity chimes as 'Chime on Eight Bells' and 'Chime on Six Bells' respectively.
Ah, especially how much work goes into these? I don’t know but I feel a lot of checking and fine tuning would have gone through the clock.
I could not find the dual chime Jacques mantel clocks listed in "the book" but here is some stuff from 1910:
Do you know if you have Charles Jacques phone#? I would definitely like to talk with him!:lightbulb:
Triniti = Trinity ?
Yes!
 

chimeclockfan

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Dec 21, 2006
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I'm afraid Charles Jacques died in 1920 and his family's gone off the radar. His son - Henri C. - was a lawyer.

Every chime clock from that period took much effort and skill to build, whether it was a Jacques Monastery or a lower-cost Junghans. All those gears and pinions which must be machined - you had no CNC machining in those days. Then tuning the gongs, polishing the cases, inking in the dial numeral etching. You had machinery to work with but a lot was done by hand.
 

Salsagev

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I'm afraid Charles Jacques died in 1920 and his family's gone off the radar. His son - Henri C. - was a lawyer.
Well he’s been a successful clock maker!

Every chime clock from that period took much effort and skill to build, whether it was a Jacques Monastery or a lower-cost Junghans. All those gears and pinions which must be machined - you had no CNC machining in those days. Then tuning the gongs, polishing the cases, inking in the dial numeral etching. You had machinery to work with but a lot was done by hand.
I wish there are some carvings on the clock! Do my hammer leathers need “roughing”?
 

chimeclockfan

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The hammer leathers look fine in the photos, sound quality is great so I wouldn't bother changing it. Love how the gongs sound more like something from a giant hall clock, very deep voiced. Some mantel and bracket clock gongs have a real tinny sound.
 

brian fisher

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i agree with justin that this is indeed a wonderful clock. a very lucky find i would say. it sounds great, but in my opinion, i would say replacing the leathers would be a very easy and recommended improvement. it would make the clock sound even deeper and more mellow than it does now.
 

Salsagev

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Thanks! Would require disassembling the movement? Are these hammer leathers screw-in?

Also, one thing I noticed is that the movement seatboat screws are super hard to get back in; I literally went to war trying to reattach the movements.
 

Isaac

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No, you'll just need to undo the screw at the top of each hammer head to take the hammers out. If you have a small enough screwdriver, you can probably maneuver it around to get at the hammer screws without unmounting the movement from the case.

I usually apply a very small amount of oil to the seatboard screws to make them rotate more freely.
 

Salsagev

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I usually apply a very small amount of oil to the seatboard screws to make them rotate more freely.
Thanks for the suggestions! The chimes for this clock is not the priority this moment as I have close to a hundred(unsatisfactory) other clocks laying around... :emoji_confounded: :whistle:
 

Schatznut

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Thanks for the suggestions! The chimes for this clock is not the priority this moment as I have close to a hundred(unsatisfactory) other clocks laying around... :emoji_confounded: :whistle:
So is that 100 unsatisfactory clocks laying around or it's unsatisfactory that you have 100 clocks laying around? :cool: I can't imagine that could be a problem!
 

Salsagev

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So is that 100 unsatisfactory clocks laying around or it's unsatisfactory that you have 100 clocks laying around? :cool: I can't imagine that could be a problem!
Well, to make that first statement true, we can change it to 50 unsatisfactory clocks laying around.
It is very TRUE that it is unsatisfactory that I have 100 clocks laying around.
However, things are starting to “unravel” (in a good way) and things are getting done!
 
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Schatznut

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Well, to make that first statement true, we can change it to 50 unsatisfactory clocks laying around.
It is very TRUE that it is unsatisfactory that I have 100 clocks laying around.
However, things are starting to “unravel” (in a good way) and things are getting done!
I know what you mean. Every time I buy a "parts clock" I take pity on it and fix it and there I am with another running parts clock. I'm currently on a quest for a Schatz 59 third wheel. I ran into some stroker that wanted $300 for the wheel I need. I declined and for $12 bought an entire Elexacta clock that was a basket case (the battery got left in it for, say, 20 years or so - you can imagine the damage it did). So before I took it apart, I removed the corrosion and slapped a fresh battery in it just to see what would happen. It took off and happily settled down into a steady beat. So I paid $20 for another Elexacta, without corrosion, but with other problems. Twenty minutes of work, slap a fresh battery in it just for grins... and I'm still looking for a Schatz 59 third wheel. I just don't have the heart to take apart for parts something that has such a determination to run!
 
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Salsagev

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I know what you mean. Every time I buy a "parts clock" I take pity on it and fix it and there I am with another running parts clock
I have the same feeling with that too! I’m also stuck on the mind set of “I might need this or that part in case of a sticky situation”. At this point, I feel like I’m gambling on clocks! Good thing that this clock was a satisfactory find! Sometimes I wonder “why is this part broken?” and end up having something I cannot fix. “One more clock on the “wait” list”
Then I come across a clock that has been on my “want” list. Turns out it was full of worms. Then comes the “demonic” basket case clock. I end up “attempting” to restore it and end up with scrap. I don’t gather the courage to toss anything unless it’s broken or worth less junk.
28748FC6-D545-4895-BDDB-B811C0495DA1.jpeg
What can I do...
 
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