Grandfather Howard Miller chime problems

[doctorv]

Hi all,

I have a relatively contemporary mid-size Howard Miller (manufactured in the 1970s), operated by manually pulled weights. There are 3 weights - time, 15-min melody, and chiming. Recently, the chime stopped working. The clock works just fine, it also plays its melody every 15 minutes. However, the chiming weight wouldn't descend, and obviously there is no chiming. I looked inside and tried to wiggle the weight and the chain gently, and it chimed for a while, but them stopped again. I would really hate to order a home call for this clock if I can help it myself somehow.

I have this clock in perfect working order for last 6 years. Any suggestions will be greatly appreciated.
I apologize if I used wrong terminology and definitions.

Val

 

[harold bain]

Hi, Val. You have two choices, call a repairman, or learn clock repair. If it was made in the 1970's the movement probably is close to worn out, and often replacing it is the best solution.

 

[R&A]

Is there anyone in your area that can look at it?

H/C

 

[doctorv]

Is there anyone in your area that can look at it?

H/C

Yes I have a few options.
My main reason is that I am not sure how challenging this problem is and I have a few more clocks: a very antique mantle Seth Thomas and a 31-day Korean Centurion. So, I am considering getting into possible self repairs if I can handle it. I never called a master to my house but I suspect it will cost me...

 

[Willie X]

Yes I have a few options.
I never called a master to my house but I suspect it will cost me...

Yes, it will.

The main problem with house calls is that the number of things that can be done are limited. Normally these are minor repairs, re-lube, and maybe some customer education. Another problem is that there is little test time and (for me) no warranty for in=home repairs.

This is a good time to learn more about the wonderful world of clock repair.

Willie X

 

[doctorv]

Yes, it will.

The main problem with house calls is that the number of things that can be done are limited. Normally these are minor repairs, re-lube, and maybe some customer education. Another problem is that there is little test time and (for me) no warranty for in=home repairs.

This is a good time to learn more about the wonderful world of clock repair.

Willie X

So, how one goes about approaching it? There should be some useful resources. If anything, I would love to know how to maintain and lubricate them.

 

[Willie X]

doct,

Reading is probably the best first step. Next, more reading mixed with plenty of hands-on repair work and experimentation will get you on your way. Best to learn how on your own stuff, and make that stuff that is not highly treasured.

There is a good list of recommended beginner's books in the archives of this MB. Someone will point it out to you.

Willie X

 

[Dick Feldman]

Doctorv,

Your clock chimes (music on the quarters) and strikes (gongs the hour). From your post, I assume it still chimes but does not strike. There are three gear trains in the movement, one for each function. The way it works is the time train triggers the chime train and when the music is done, the strike train is triggered to count the hour.

If your clock has run for most of the time since the 70’s, it has run for upwards of 40 years. That is a long time in clock years and I would expect it to be worn out. If not, it is in the very last part of its useful life.

If you have a clock guy come out and if he is worth his salt, he will tell you that your clock needs a new movement or it needs to have a bunch of bushings installed. You simply cannot expect a 30-40 year old movement to run with a bit of oiling and some poking around. If the clock man gets it to go, it will be a short lived repair. If a new movement is available, that will likely be the most cost effective solution. He will charge you something to tell you that and that something will be about 25% of what you can buy a new movement for. He will probably charge near the same amount to install the new movement and to get your clock running again. You can do that math in your head.

If a new movement is made, it is likely within your capacity to install it yourself. I am not saying the new movement will fall into the case and run. It will be a bit of a hassle to install it. If you can buy into that, proceed. If a new movement is not available and the old movement needs to be rebuilt, it might be time for serious rethinking. Rebuilding a movement properly is way beyond your capabilities.

If you send us some pictures of the movement, especially the back plate, we maybe can steer you a bit closer to a solution.

Installing a new movement is a good learning project and a way to get a start with clock repair. Before you start anything more complicated, you will need to read and read and read. Visit your local library.

Best.

Dick

 

[harold bain]

Here's a discussion about what clock repair books are recommended:
https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?50110-First-6-books-in-clock-repair-and-building
None will be specific to your clock, but will give the basics needed to understand how clocks work, which is necessary to learn how to repair them. Don't expect quick results. It will take time to accumulate enough information to feel comfortable actually fixing a clock.

 

[R&A]

As for grandfather movements. This movement is not one of the harder movements of that aria. Do allot of reading and take pictures by all means. Study the mechanics and all aspects of it's components and how they interact with each other. And think you will find that this group will do there best to help you along. That's why were here. And the resources are endless.

H/C

 

[shutterbug]

I would recommend starting on something a bit easier than a three train movement. As you'll find as you read the threads here, the only way to find and repair problems is a complete disassembly and inspection, followed by necessary repairs, reassembly, oiling and testing. It can get pretty involved. It would be nice if oil were a cure-all ..... but it isn't

 

[Les Sanders]

Hey,

It would help if we knew where you are located. If you are in southern arizona, I would be happy to give you some hands on lessons. I have had some much help from other members and nawcc classes and the fine men on this board I am more than willing to help!

Regards,

Les Sanders

 

[doctorv]

Everybody - thank you so much for suggestions.
I found my movement and I am going to buy it.
My question - should I aim for replacing it myself? I think I will be able to remove the hands, remove the old one and install the new one. Would it be too much for a novice?

 

[Dick Feldman]

Doctorv,

I think you should be able to install a new movement. There are sometimes a few modifications one must make. When you get to the removal/installation, take lots of pictures. Post some pictures here as you proceed and we can help you along.

Best

Dick

 

[shutterbug]

I'd recommend getting a small bottle of clock oil (they use nano oil at the factory) and oiling it before inserting it in the case. Just the pivots. Read all you can on how to do it. Lots of info right here if you use search.
You can get nano oil from Butterworth Clocks. Use search to find him and send a private message. Mark Butterworth.

 

[doctorv]

I'd recommend getting a small bottle of clock oil (they use nano oil at the factory) and oiling it before inserting it in the case. Just the pivots. Read all you can on how to do it. Lots of info right here if you use search.
You can get nano oil from Butterworth Clocks. Use search to find him and send a private message. Mark Butterworth.

Thanks!
In fact, I have some original oil from Howard Miller. The clock came with a syringe-looking oil device (you remove a cap, there is a needle and if you squeeze gently, a droplet of oil appears). I am not sure is this is a nano oil though.

 

[czach]

Just a thought: Although these things do wear out, it's odd that the clock time is working, but chime is down.

The chime is fired on most of these clocks by a lever on the front of the movement that is lifted by a star wheel on the hour hand with one of the four points being taller than the others. It then counts the hours with the snail, and bong bong you go.

This could be as simple as a sticking lever, which could be fixed with a cleaning or a bit of clock grease on a brass lifting part. Try taking off the face of your clock (hands first, usually held on by a screw on nut, then in the case of my Urgos/Sligh movement the face is held on by four levers engaging four metal posts on the back of the face) then put the hands on, and see how it works. When the hour chime is upon you see if any of the levers that run the length of the clock front are sticking.

Chris

 

[R&A]

Thanks!
In fact, I have some original oil from Howard Miller. The clock came with a syringe-looking oil device (you remove a cap, there is a needle and if you squeeze gently, a droplet of oil appears). I am not sure is this is a nano oil though.

No it's not Nano oil. And you don't need this oil, you have your own. Just don't squeeze the oilier to much or the plastic will crack. They seem to get brittle with age. The first time you have one fall apart in your hands you won't want it to happen again. Oil every wheres. But you will need to get the front plate to do this. You'll have to pull the movement. It may come out the back. Be careful with the suspension spring. But if it comes out the front, it's a little easier. Still be careful with the crutch and pendulum hanger not to catch it on the seat board when removing. Got some pictures to show us your setup. Much easier to instruct with a picture to relate to.

H/C

 

[czach]

Just a thought: Everywhere should not include the gear teeth themselves, and only the smallest drop of oil on each pivot hole.

My Sligh had so much oil on it, it was soaked on the escape wheel which was stopping it. All that oil just traps dirt and dust and acts as a "gum" on the movement. Even worse was my little Seth Thomas Tambour clock; it was literally dripping with oil. Running it through my ultrasonic cleaner for 5 minutes and then putting the smallest drop of oil on each pivot hole, followed by two drops on each pallet face (put a drop on each, run it to allow the oil to distribute onto the gear, then another drop) and a bit of clock grease (as in a tiny little "streak" of it) on each sliding portion (the star wheel that lifts the chime levers, where the levers press against each other) was enough to get it running perfectly fine from a clock that would not run for more than a minute.

And note both my Sligh and the Seth Thomas need bushing work, so this is aside from that.

Hope that helps. And please post some pics.

C

No it's not Nano oil. And you don't need this oil, you have your own. Just don't squeeze the oilier to much or the plastic will crack. They seem to get brittle with age. The first time you have one fall apart in your hands you won't want it to happen again. Oil every wheres. But you will need to get the front plate to do this. You'll have to pull the movement. It may come out the back. Be careful with the suspension spring. But if it comes out the front, it's a little easier. Still be careful with the crutch and pendulum hanger not to catch it on the seat board when removing. Got some pictures to show us your setup. Much easier to instruct with a picture to relate to.

H/C

 

[shutterbug]

I think H/C meant that the oil bottle broke and the oil went everywhere

 

[czach]

I think H/C meant that the oil bottle broke and the oil went everywhere

That explains what happened to this Seth Thomas! I thought it had simply been dunked into a vat of oil....

C