Grandfather clock with Elite (Germany) works

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by bujak, Jul 22, 2012.

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  1. bujak

    bujak Registered User

    Jul 22, 2012
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    We have this great Grandfather clock with an Elite works #69529. It has two tubes. One is struck on the hour and the other is struck once on the half hour. The plate on the face is " Van Heusen Charles Co., Albany N.Y." (which I believe was a jewelry store.)

    The clock works perfectly, but I would dearly like to know more about it.
    I see No indication of who made the cabinet.

    I bought the book 'Long Case Clocks and Standing Regulators', but there is hardly any mention of Elite.

    Any help would be appreciated.
     

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  2. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    #2 chimeclockfan, Jul 22, 2012
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2012
    This probably uses a Math. Bauerle movement, they generally supplied movements for Chas. Jacques and other case makers of the period. However, the name "Elite" was also used by Bawo & Dotter of whom imported such clock movements.

    Photos of the movement could help, however. The name "Elite" wasn't unique to any maker.
     
  3. Rogerstar1

    Rogerstar1 Registered User

    Jul 28, 2011
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    THe precise dimensions of your terrific clock case would be helpful to identifying it's maker, I think. Mine is, quite similar in many respects and bears a tag of a high end jewelry store in nearby Pittsfield, Ma. The date of that Store's bankruptcy established the approximate last date my clock could have been sold. Our brass tags, if identical in shape and font, as I suspect they are, will be a link that may advance better identification of both cases I submit. Mine may be viewed here by scrolling down:
    http://www.ebay.com/itm/150639248443?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

    Roger
     
  4. bujak

    bujak Registered User

    Jul 22, 2012
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    Thanks, Guys, for the input.
    I am posting a few pics of the works and the face.
    There are a couple pieces to the puzzle that I have not figured out. The clock came from the mansion of a very prominent family in Houston....So prominent that a main street is named after the family. I would have thought that they would have had a clock with 9 tubes, and not just 2.

    Also, on each side of the face is a lever. I have experimented and moved the left lever up....and it stops the chiming, but I do not know the function of the right lever when it is moved up.

    Thanks for all the input....

    Note the middle picture clearly shows the striking mechanism....arms holding string which triggers the weight to strike the top of the tube, which is suspended by a string.

    The case is 94.75" tall....and just fits in our apartment.
    P1020031.JPG P1020032.JPG P1020034.JPG

    Bob IMGA0121.JPG IMGA0122.JPG IMGA0131.JPG IMGA0133.JPG P1010118800.jpg

    Bob...Thanks for the prompt support....
     
  5. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User
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    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
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    Bob i can say you have avery good clock and perhaps older than you thought. A very nice find for sure, and it fits your living space which is a big plus.
     
  6. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    Dec 21, 2006
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    Clocks with these narrower cases usually had 5 or 6 tubes at most - larger cases had as many as 13 tubes.
     
  7. harold bain

    harold bain Registered User
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    Nov 4, 2002
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    I suppose some people didn't like having the Westminster chime ringing every 15 minutes, preferring a simple striking clock like this one. It is a beautiful clock.
     
  8. Tinker Dwight

    Tinker Dwight Registered User

    Oct 11, 2010
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    Hi
    Listen to it for a full hour. I suspect you'll hear the difference in the strike
    pattern.
    First two tube I've seen but I'm not surprised.
    Tinker Dwight
     
  9. martind42

    martind42 New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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    #9 martind42, Sep 20, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2012
    We own the same model of clock. Just had it restored and it looks fantastic. The clock literally belonged to my grandfather, who was a mortician and this clock was located in their home which was also the funeral parlor in Norfolk, VA. There is a date of 1904 on it, no other signifying marks other than the word "Elite". Here are a couple of photos of it. The levers control the way the clock strikes. If both levers are in the down position, the clock will strike the long tube the number of hours shown, and the shorter tube on the half hour, again the number of hours shown. If the left lever is moved up, the clock will strike once at the top of the hour, and once at the bottom of the hour, using the corresponding tube. The other lever is for nighttime use, move it up and it makes the clock not chime at all.

    IMG_3699.jpg IMG_3701.jpg
     
  10. Rogerstar1

    Rogerstar1 Registered User

    Jul 28, 2011
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    Nice clock. What are it's dimensions? Is the glass beveled?

    Thanks.
    Roger
     
  11. bujak

    bujak Registered User

    Jul 22, 2012
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    The top glass over the face is not beveled, but the lower glass in the middle section is beveled.
    In rereading the original discussion...
    I apologize for not having provided more dimensions.....other than the height.
    widest part under the face....20.25" x 14.5"
    center section....15.25" 12.5"
    lower section with design....19.75" x 14 1/8"
    bottom of feet....23.5 x 16"

    I would be very interested in knowing where the date '1904' was found.

    Bob
     
  12. martind42

    martind42 New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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    Here's a photo that shows it. It is located on the left side of the top frame. Remove the top of the clock and you'll see it there. Mine says "Pat. May 17 1904". Have a look and I would be interested in what your clock shows.
     

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  13. bujak

    bujak Registered User

    Jul 22, 2012
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    Thanks, it will be a couple days before my son comes over and can help me remove the hood.

    Does your clock have a tag under the lower date dial :???:??

    I appreciate your description of the use of the levers.

    ThePackardMan@gmail.com
     

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  14. martind42

    martind42 New Member

    Sep 20, 2012
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    No, it does not. Here are a couple more photos of the face.
     

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  15. klockedout

    klockedout Registered User
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    Hello, My name is David Warner.In 1997 under the auspices of The Greater St.Louis Regional I spearheaded the publication of the book "Elite Hall Clocks" . The "Elite " name was the top of the model line of "The Bawo & Dotter" company . The movements at this high level were usually were manufactured by Winterhalder & Hofmeier ,W&H . There were lower grades-"Monastery" and "Peerless" but to my knowledge not in this high grade clock. The book is still available .
     
  16. bujak

    bujak Registered User

    Jul 22, 2012
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    Small world episode.....
    I did a Wikipedia search for Winterhalder & Hofmeier and nearly fell over when I read that W&H were in Titisee.
    Gail and I were there in December 2011 and bought the Hones cuckoo clock with running water #86200T.
    The Hones and the W&H are right around the corner from each other in our home.
    TitiseeSign.jpg
     
  17. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    Recent research has already revealed Matthias Bauerle as the primary maker of B&D's 'Elite' and 'Monastery' movements. Bauerle was based in St. Georgen, Baden (Germany), more common trademarks including 'Peerless' and 'Embee'.
    A 1996 bulletin dismissed Bauerle (previously mentioned in Henry Fried's 1982 bulletin) due to lack of identification and information at the time.

    While I have seen Winterhalder movements bearing the legion "Elite A1", I do not think this was B&D's Elite but another trademark.
     
  18. bujak

    bujak Registered User

    Jul 22, 2012
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    Here is a pic of the back of the clock .
    Does the artwork/logo give a clue as to who was the real manufacturer?
     

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  19. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    I don't recall that ornate scribble beneath any M. Bauerle/B&D 'Elite' movement I'm aware of.

    Is the tube rack stamped with a patent date?
     
  20. bujak

    bujak Registered User

    Jul 22, 2012
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    Am on the road for the next 10 days so will be unable to take more pics and look for other markings.
    Here are a few more pics of the works...maybe they are unique to a clockmaker...or is the serial number unique to a clockmaker?
    Bob
     

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  21. bluelotus

    bluelotus Registered User
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    May 18, 2013
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    Hello David,
    Where can I get a copy of your book "Elite Hall Clocks"?
    Thanks,
    Gregory
     
  22. nicksey

    nicksey Registered User

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    Out of interest, and in case those interested have not seen it, there is an ad for sale on ebay for a page from a 1903 publication advertising the Bawo & Dotter Elite Movement "AA" the ad lists its features and benefits and asks why someone would buy a 'cheapened english movement' when you could buy this.

    I am not the seller and I have no connection with the seller and hope I have not done wrong or caused offence by mentioning an item for sale, but thought it was relevant to this thread. I have not included an image of the advertisement as I am not sure if that would be fair to the seller, but search ebay for Elite Hall Clocks and it can be found.
     
  23. bluelotus

    bluelotus Registered User
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    May 18, 2013
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    Hello David,
    I wonder if you could tell me how I can obtain a copy of your publication.
    Thanks,
    Gregory
    gregory.oliveri@yahoo.com
     
  24. bujak

    bujak Registered User

    Jul 22, 2012
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    #24 bujak, Jun 24, 2017
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2017
    I just acquired a signed copy of David Warner's Elite Hall Clocks made by Bawo & Dotter.
    I was pleased to find our grandfather clock pictured and listed as Case No. 45.
    The puzzle is that it states "Takes only Five Tubular Bells" ....BUT...our clock has only TWO tubular bells!
    The next discrepancy is that it states that the two bell works have face #369, but our face is #522.
    The third issue is that it claims that the works R strikes 12 on the high note chime for 12:30 so as not to confuse the listener with1:30. Our clock always strikes once on the half hour.

    I guess these were custom clocks that could be ordered to suit ones inclinations.

    On another topic.....unfortunately, our clock does not have the original high note tubular bell. Sometime in the past 100 years it was replaced with a tubular bell of lesser tonal quality. If there is any reader who has a spare bell, I certainly would like to start a discussion about changing ownership.
     
  25. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User

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    where did you find this book?
     
  26. bujak

    bujak Registered User

    Jul 22, 2012
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    https://www.abebooks.com

    Several years ago when we acquired our clock, I submitted a 'wish list' and finally someone listed it, so I bought it.
    There are a few pages of text about the history of Bawo & Dotter, but the bulk of the book is reprints of catalogs from 1904-1914. Pictures of cases, works, some price lists, but unfortunately no tables of serial numbers allowing one to positively date a clock.
     
  27. JTD

    JTD Registered User

    Sep 27, 2005
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    You were lucky - there are no copies there now and it's hard to get!

    When searching for hard to find books I can recommend www.used.addall.com which searches just about every site there is, including abebooks and thus saves a lot of time.

    JTD
     

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