Grande Sonnerie Mystery

[f.webster]

This grande sonnerie clock is a mystery to me. It doesn’t have a mark on it!

I think it is a German style Vienna regulator; however, the works are free of any trademarks, stamped numbers, or craftsmen’s marks. The case has no labels, stencils, or burnings.

Is this just a cleaver marriage of parts? I thought that it might be a G. Becker, or maybe even some French works in an Ansonia box (the lady’s head on the front). I’ve looked at images on line but haven’t seen anything quite like it.

What is your guess…or does anyone know? Thanks for your help!

 

[wow]

It looks like a GB to me. Check the repair forum and you will find a thread about a GB having a strike problem that was started yesterday. There is a photo of a movement that is very similar to yours. The threads is posted by Edevildude.
Will

 

[tarant]

Could you post the photos of the back (rear plate) of the movement and the anchor ?

 

[Gordon Andersen]

Hi,
In looking at your picture of the movement, it looks as though the spring, on the left, is broken.
I would be sure to check this out before doing much more.
Gordon Andersen
West Bend, Wisconsin

 

[John Arrowood]

Perhaps it's Austrian? Mounting the movement on a wooden seat board indicates a pre-1870 date, I faintly recall reading somewhere. Are there bushings in the hour and minute hands? The 3 Austrian 3-trains I have do not have bushings in the hands. I realize that hands can have been mixed up and/or replaced during the hundred years or so since the clocks were first placed in service.

 

[bangster]

Looks exactly like a G. Becker I worked on a while back.

See pics in [URL="https://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?39874-Clock-Parts-Terminology&p=603241#post603241"]this thread[/URL].

 

[Richard T.]

Hi,
In looking at your picture of the movement, it looks as though the spring, on the left, is broken.
I would be sure to check this out before doing much more.
Gordon Andersen
West Bend, Wisconsin

Hello George,

This is a weight driven, grand sonnerie movement. I think what you are seeing are the two spiral gongs which are mounted on the back of the movement.

Best,

Richard T.

 

[Richard T.]

Perhaps John Hubby can clarify or correct this...........I thought that all of the Becker clocks were marked.

Best,

Richard T.

 

[bangster]

Perhaps you didn't see my post?

 

[tarant]

It's not a GB IMO. Back plate of the movement, please
The striking mechanisms and front plates are not identical.

 

[Richard T.]

I agree that these two movements (front) are not identical. The mounting studs for the levers have different spacing, there is a bridge over the center arbor, the snail advance wheel has different shaped teeth etc ......etc...

Best,

Richard T.

 

[soaringjoy]

I would go so far to say, it's most probably a Freiburg / Silesia maker.
No further, though...

 

[bangster]

Agreed. Not at all identical. My error.

 

[soaringjoy]

They all look the same on first glance, a major part of the problem.
The Germans didn't design those sonneries, they copied them (again)
with very minor changes to the originals Viennese movements.

 

[tarant]

I would go so far to say, it's most probably a Freiburg / Silesia maker.
No further, though...

Hmm. I've never seen a grand sonnerie weight driven clock made in Freiburg.

 

[soaringjoy]

Well, they apparently did make them, around 1885, 1890.
There are at least two different types of GB grande sonnerie movements of
"Viennese influence" (quote) listed in Kochmann's Gustav Becker Story;
at least one was of Becker's own design, a so called Schablonen Uhr (pattern model).

It is assumed, that other companies joined in for a short while and there are especially
mentions of Berger & Würker, Leipzig.
Unfortunately, there is hardly any picture material to be obtained on those grande sonneries.

You are right, that the considerable majority of the Freiburger 3 wts. Viennas were quarter
strikers, of course you are.

 

[tarant]

The first movement, showed on page 100 (Plate 100 and 101) is really mysterious. Has no keyholes for mounting bayonets, which clocks from Braunau had, SN is 800898. But the hammers are vertical - adjusted for rod gongs introduced in 1899, only in Braunau clocks. There's no certain proof that this clock was made in Freiburg.

The second, from pages 103 - 105 (plates 120,121,122) was discussed on NAWCC as I remember . The summary is in article published on SNClocks, clock was presumed as made in Braunau:
http://www.snclocks.com/TechnicalIn...ND5qVv/1230451906_cFiGv#!i=1230451906&k=cFiGv

 

[soaringjoy]

No, there is no proof.
It was just one thought of mine, that the movement of the OP could have been made in Freiburg, not explicitly
meaning GB.
Anyway, the site you linked explains many things very well. Thanks for posting.

 

[f.webster]

Sorry ..got lost in the log in this way and that..
Here is an image of the back of the works. I have been following the posts and am thankful for everyones inputs. Does the case not hold any clues? I thought the eglae and the lady's head would be a signature from somewhere.



Let's see if I am keeping up:
Perhaps it's Austrian pre-1870, or
Berger & Würker, Leipzig...

I'm off to read that article again.

 

[soaringjoy]

Well, we did get carried away in discussion about the grande sonneries....

No, your clock is not pre 1870, because the Gründerzeit (Alt-Deutsch) style of the case evolved after that date.
The style was popular in both Austria and Germany, as were the eagles, ladies heads, Medusas or whatever.

Fact is, we do not yet know, who really made your clock. Most of these movements were made by Vienna clockmakers,
but unfortunately, they were seldom signed.

In any case, you have a fine clock that seems to be in very good condition.

 

[Gordon Andersen]

Sorry. I really should have known better.
Oh well, I guess my mind isn't working properly.
Gordon A.

 

[f.webster]

I am thankful for all who added their two cents and more. In the end I guess I am right back where I started... it's a Grannde Sonnerie Mystery.

I do know more than when I started.