Got my GB yesterday

[Ken M]

This image is watermarked, so I may go to prison for posting it, but I beat out one other bidder. The holiday season seems to be a good time to be auctio shopping, very little competition, guess everyone is busy with this Christmas thing going on!

 

[Ken M]

Looks like the anchor pin is broken off, other than that it looks complete, even the guard is there.

 

[KurtinSA]

What is the serial number? Do you know if the pendulum matches the clock serial number?

Kurt

 

[Ken M]

I don't have that info, it will be a couple weeks before I get it, hopefully with the dome intact, but I won't hold my breath on that.

 

[Ken M]

It looks like the s/n is in the lower right, rather than centered.

 

[KurtinSA]

I don't have that info, it will be a couple weeks before I get it, hopefully with the dome intact, but I won't hold my breath on that.

The dome doesn't look right for the clock...too high it seems to me.

Kurt

 

[Ken M]

Yea, that's what I think. If it's contemporary to the clock, I'll be happy. Maybe I can swap it with one of my other clocks.

 

[KurtinSA]

Mostly the serial number is in the center. But I have a few where it has "wandered" to the right a bit.

Kurt

 

[etmb61]

I would guess it will have a number somewhere around or between 2086084 and 2108155 give a few or take. 1909-1910?

Eric

 

[Ken M]

Why are their numbers so high? They sure didn't make 2 million of those things. But they made a lot of other clocks too.

 

[etmb61]

Both(?) of Becker's facilities numbered their clocks in single sequences until about 1925. So apparently each type of clock where given blocks of numbers when they were in production. I have a Becker bracket clock numbered 2403130 which falls in a gap of 20000 clocks in my 400 day clock records.

I don't think they made more than 70000 400 day clocks. John Hubby posted his thoughts on their numbers some time ago.

 

[KurtinSA]

John posted they made about 2500000 serial numbered clocks out of the Freiburg factory and nearly 1000000 out of the Braunau factory. Here is where he posted his estimation of total clocks by GB and others:

Post Your Gustav Becker 400-Day Clocks Here | NAWCC Forums

Kurt

 

[etmb61]

John posted they made about 2500000 serial numbered clocks out of the Freiburg factory and nearly 1000000 out of the Braunau factory. Here is where he posted his estimation of total clocks by GB and others:

Post Your Gustav Becker 400-Day Clocks Here | NAWCC Forums

Kurt

I knew I could count on you to find it!

 

[Ken M]

That's a lot of clocks!

 

[Ken M]

My GB is shipping today, probably have it by the end of the week. So the only problem I think I see is the anchor pin, or is the pin on these not on the pallet bar? These is something towards the back that I can't make out, could that be where the anchor pin is? But if it goes where I think it goes, I need to make a new one. Looking for tips and tricks, Read once where someone used a needle, is there a better option?

 

[michael isaacs]

My GB the anchor pin is located rearward of the pallets. Looks like I might be seeing the edge of it in your photo. You might be good to go.

 

[Ken M]

Thanks, that's what I was wondering.

 

[Ken M]

I was looking at the fork in that picture, it doesn't reach the pallets...another clue. That's a really short fork!

 

[KurtinSA]

A little hard to see, but here is a typical anchor arbor showing that the pin comes out of a collar near one end of the arbor.

Kurt

 

[etmb61]

The anchor pin has its own little collar on the end of the arbor. These often work loose causing the clock to stop. It's a weak point in the Becker design.



Eric

 

[Ken M]

How do you fix it if it happens?

 

[Nathan S]

Bit of Loctite

 

[Ken M]

Just got the GB a while ago, SN 2056108, maybe 3, 1906. Dome is intact. Everything is there, even the bottom block! Got some work to do. There is a gold color on the bottom and the inside of the bezel. I know a girl at Michaels that can match that color exactly. Not sure yet.

 

[KurtinSA]

The clock dates to 1908 according to John's notes. Did the click spring come with the clock? Is the dome an original thick one? It's good to have but likely too tall for the clock.

Kurt

 

[Ken M]

I went by the book for the date. I had to take the click spring off to see the s/n. The dome is old, can't tell how old, but it's in one piece. The thing stinks. Mostly the barrel, where ever this old oil is.

I'm having difficulty getting it out of the barrel, I can't twist it to get it off the pin. Probably glued.

 

[Dells]

I went by the book for the date. I had to take the click spring off to see the s/n. The dome is old, can't tell how old, but it's in one piece. The thing stinks. Mostly the barrel, where ever this old oil is.


I'm having difficulty getting it out of the barrel, I can't twist it to get it off the pin. Probably glued.

You need a spring winder to remove the mainspring properly but it is possible to do it by hand but not recommended , search YouTube to see how, I think that’s the most gunged up mainspring I have ever seen.
That is all tarnished brass it should polish up nicely, ( shouldn’t have any paint on it.)
Dell

 

[Ken M]

Got the stink out of the movement, now it's on me. Nasty stuff, whatever it is. Some kind of grease, everywhere. Places where there shouldn't be grease, like the pin holes on the posts. But the movement is done. Think the pallets are off, I get good impulse in one direction, and almost nothing in the other. It will be a few days before I'll be testing.

 

[Dells]

Unless you are certain that the pallets have been moved don’t touch them , the escape wheel tooth should land on the pallet just above the polished bit ( not on it ), does the eccentric bush look damaged ? That’s normally a tell tail.

 

[Ken M]

Yes, the eccentric nut has been buggered with. It looks like it's in the original position. I've done pallets, got lost few times but got them back. I'll see if it runs, I doubt it will.

 

[Ken M]

I still have work yo do, but I'm far enough along I was able to put it together for a test run....nope, not even close. The eccentric looked good at first glance, I'll have to look again, otherwise the pallets are all messed up. Not a problem, I have time.

 

[Ken M]

I'm basically starting from scratch with the pallets and eccentric nut. They were so far off I didn't have a starting point. The eccentric slot was straight up and down. I went back through pages of posts looking at the eccentrics on other Beckers, and they are all the same, little cocked to one side. So I'm trying to find that sweet spot. I made mine so the eccentric pivot line up with the escape wheel and the minute arbor like this.

As for the pallets, trial and error is all I can do. I get really close, but more than once I get to a place where the exit pallet catches on the top of the tooth of the escape wheel. I think if I just move the pallet up a half a hair to clear the tooth, I'll be good. But everytime I try that, it throws everything out of whack. So then I think the entrance pallet is leaving too soon, so I lower that pallet, only for everything to go out of whack again. So I set them to approximately where I thought they should be and used that as a starting place, but I run into the same situation. Maybe I just need to raise the exit pallet 1/4 of a hair? Not enough, another 1/2=too much and here I go again. So I'm wondering how you go about it when you find yourself in a similar situation? Maybe my methodology is wrong but I can't think of any other way. Too cold in the shop for a couple days, so I'm just going to think about it!

 

[KurtinSA]

Read Section 7 in the repair guide to understand how the eccentric and pallets work together. IIRC, the eccentric is adjusted to get the drops right...then it's not touched anymore. Then the pallets are adjusted to get the locks right. It's complicated but I think that's the basics.

I might be wrong but the position of the eccentric on other clocks isn't neccesarily right for all clocks.

Kurt

 

[michael isaacs]

This may not help you out, but it might for others. I had an eccentric fall out during cleaning. With a magnifying glass I was able to line up minute scratches on the back plate with the eccentric scratches and that got me close enough.

 

[Dells]

A good starting point for the eccentric bush is to put the front & backplate together inside to inside and align the eccentric bush with the pivot hole.
Dell

 

[Ken M]

I braved the polar bears and worked on the clock. I got the eccentric lined up and made a little scribe o I have a starting point. When the book says a 32nd of an inch on the eccentric nut can kill the clock, I am dismayed. But I continued. The impulse face on the entrance pallet is so shallow, it doesn't give a good kick. I'm guessing it will work like this.

I understand the mechanics of the clock, but the science is a little baffling, 1°, 2°, 4°? Those are a big deal in astronomy, but something this small seem negligible. I may have met my match, unless I just happen across it. Statistically, how many adjustments before I hit the right arrangement?

 

[KurtinSA]

As many as it takes...based on my past experiences.

Kurt

 

[Wayne A]

Statistically, how many adjustments before I hit the right arrangement?

This greatly depends on the adjuster. Thousandths matter.

 

[Ken M]

Yea, that impulse face, no room for error. It's either too shallow or too deep, I have shave the hairs down some.

 

[KurtinSA]

I shoot for this goal in setting up the locks. I move the anchor back and forth with my finger tip for control of any bouncing of the fork. I check that when the anchor pin is pointing straight up, a tooth on the escape wheel should already be on the impulse face but about 1/3 of the distance down from the lock face edge. I check this positioning with each tooth on both impulse faces. If this positioning isn't right, then pallet(s) need to be adjusted.

Kurt

 

[Dells]

On torsion clocks the locks are deeper than a regular clock , that seems to be why most clockmakers have trouble repairing them because they think the locks are wrong and alter them and that makes things worse.

 

[KurtinSA]

Dell, are you referring to the initial lock or the total lock after the over swing is complete? I find that the initial lock should be as small as needed. Any larger and energy is wasted dragging the tooth across the lock face.

Kurt

 

[Dells]

Dell, are you referring to the initial lock or the total lock after the over swing is complete? I find that the initial lock should be as small as needed. Any larger and energy is wasted dragging the tooth across the lock face.

Kurt

Hi Kurt
I you look at a so called pendulum clock and at a torsion clock, the initial lock is deeper on a torsion clock, ( that’s my observation anyway) although that statement is not the be all and end all because every clock seems to be slightly different but on average I find the tooth needs to land about 1 to 1.5mm above the polished part of the anchor whereas on a swing pendulum clock with similar escape setup the tooth seems to land on the very edge of polished part.
Dell

 

[KurtinSA]

Certainly you have more experience with other non-torsion clocks. I'm not sure what a recoil escapement is and how the parts move..other other types...I only deal with dead beat types. It wouldn't make sense that the initial lock is say 5mm (don't try that at home!!) because of all the surface the tooth has to move across to drop onto the impulse face and then drop to the next pallet. On the other extreme, if the lock was miniscule, the clock might work but all it takes is one tooth to land on the impulse face to stop a torsion clock. Thus, I can see that having a small amount of initial lock, to cover the variations in the clock's anchor/escape wheel, is what should be the goal to minimize the energy losses but ensure that there will be a sufficient lock each time.

Kurt

 

[Wayne A]

More than one way to get there I suppose. I focus on getting the impulse equal and timed to begin 2-3 deg before pin is center. After that as long as enough lock is present to prevent pallet from riding up on ew its good. You can do this set up fairly quickly with just a few wheels in the clock using finger power.
Getting the impulse timed is much like when riding a swing, don't want to add energy too early or too late.

Wayne

 

[Ken M]

Thanks for all the reminder, tips and tricks. About the fork on this thing. all my other clocks, I position the fork by estimating, and it's good enough. I've been trying to get the flutter out by moving pallets. I considered the fork, but it was even with the top of the pin, so I figured it was high enough. But there are a couple millimeters from the top of the pin and the contact points with the fork. So I moved it up half that, and flutter be gone. But now the entrance pallet hit the tooth. I moved the fork back down a hair, it's better, but still nicks the tooth. Gave it a push and it eventually stops. I quit for the day. I've never seen a fork this sensitive. Is this typical for a GB?

 

[KurtinSA]

One thing I recall from the repair guide for when the lock is shallow...or a tooth hits the impulse face...if the entrance pallet lock is shallow, the adjustment is on the exit side. Seems counter intuitive, but when thinking about it, it makes sense.

Kurt

 

[Ken M]

Yes, I read that, and I've been doing that. Tomorrow that will be the first thing.

 

[Ken M]

It's been running (sort of) for about 3 hours. No motion works and less than 180° rotation. It's got a little overswing, not much since there to begin with. I'm afraid to breathe next to it.

 

[Ken M]

Put the face on it. Still running a couple hours, about 170° rotation.

 

[KurtinSA]

How much over swing? That's important to the health of the clock.

Kurt