gorge case, howell and james carriage clock identification help

[FaceLoran]

So i acquired this little beauty a few weeks ago and im struggling to figure out the maker. I know it is a gorge case, with a grand sonnerie. It has Howell and James Paris on the bottom. F.D next to the gong. and the numbers 3108 on the bottom left with the letters 213 below it. The numbers 3108 appear on the bottom of the case and the number 213 appear on the top of the case by the movement.

I found no makers mark besides these pieces. any help identifying this little guy would be much appreciated

 

[zedric]

Try looking between the plates or on the back of the front plate . It has the look of a Hollongue or an early Drocourt and sometimes these are marked in odd positions

 

[FaceLoran]

Try looking between the plates or on the back of the front plate . It has the look of a Hollongue or an early Drocourt and sometimes these are marked in odd positions

I did a careful search between the plates and saw no makers mark or symbol. all i can find are those serial numbers. thanks for the tips.

 

[zedric]

I still think that this is most likely to be a Hollingue clock - examples of the stamped marks on one of my clocks are shown below - at the bottom of the front plate you can see the HL mark for Hollingue, and inbetween the barrels you can see the Drocourt mark - this is sometimes higher up, so completely or partially hidden by the barrels.

 

[jmclaugh]

A nice one with subsidiary dials for seconds, alarm, day of the week and month. FD is most likely a gong supplier, the numbers relate to the production process. Will look very nice after a service.

 

[Leigh Extence]

As suggested by Zedric, a clock from the Holingue freres workshops in Saint Nicolas d'Aliermont. The hand-setting arrow design is pure Holingue as is the Fast/Slow regulation index at the top and the overall layout and design.

At this period Holingue were mainly supplying Drocourt, who would add either one or both of the two Drocourt oval markings on the backpate and/or hidden, but also sold clocks with no markings on the backplate to be retailed by others. But it should have the Holingue H.L. mark low down on the front of the frontplate and another serial number between the plates low down, around 10,000?, which is possibly part hidden by the movement pillars.
I have seen these with no H.L. mark, but it is not the norm.
The three subsidiary dials dials seconds dial are of a type seen on clocks signed for both Drocourt and Bourdin at this time, both being supplied by Holingue.

As to the retailer Howell & James, this ties in nicely as they were supplied carriage clocks throughout the late 19th century by both Holingue and Drocourt either together or individually, with all clocks coming from the same Saint Nicolas workshop. 1495 is an H.L. clock in the Bourdin style with no Drocourt mark and retailed by Howell & James. 3543, 3731, 4416, 4549, 5175, 9574, are all H.L. stamped clocks with a Drocourt stamp also on the movement and retailed by Howell & James, whereas H.L. 6830, 7973 and 9288 have no Drocourt stamp. 24589 and 26802 are much later carriage clocks retailed by Howell & James, made circa 1890, and have no H.L. stamp as the Holingue workshop had been taken over by Drocourt in 1874 and the movements now just signed by Drocourt.

Holingue were using various gong suppliers at the time, with the transition from bell in its infancy, with F.D. most likely the London gong maker Francis Drury who I have been researching lately. In 1850 he patented a new style of 'bell' which was in fact a coiled gong of the type seen on most carriage clocks in the latter period. He and his family also supplied large coiled gongs to the London bracket clock makers of the late-Victorian period.

It might be worth another peek at the frontplate, or even see if the H.L. mark is reflected in the dialplate if that's easier?
And is there a further number stamped on the underside of the case? Some were at this time.
As to date of manufacture, I would suggest circa 1865.

Leigh

 

[Leigh Extence]

Grammar alert!

The three subsidiary dials dials seconds dial are of a type...

This line should read:
The three subsidiary dials and seconds dial are of a type...