Good provenance is so nice , never ever seen this!

P.Hageman

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Just bought myselve an English longcase clock with a rocking ship in the arch. But inside the case there is a paper attached which tells the story. How nice to know to whom the clock first belonged as a present on theyre marriage and also the name AND addres of the clockmaker and the casemaker! Never seen that before.

Head.jpg label.jpg
 

Grant Perry

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That is a great looking dial. The rocking ship is fantastic.
The documentation is certainly a bonus. It certainly speaks to a time when hand writing was an art.
Grant
 

jmclaugh

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How lovely and a nice dial. There are three of the name John Wilson listed by Loomes in Peterborough, one has the suffix (I), another looks a duplicate of him and the third is suffixed (II), presumably father and son, the dates on the case label indicate the son 1830-41. Perhaps Mary and William can be tracked down.
 

gleber

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Nice Find! I love the rocking ship. And the label is a good bonus. Not to throw cold water on the situation, but do you believe it is authentic? It looks pretty pristine for being just shy of 200 years old.

Tom
 

P.Hageman

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Nice Find! I love the rocking ship. And the label is a good bonus. Not to throw cold water on the situation, but do you believe it is authentic? It looks pretty pristine for being just shy of 200 years old.

Tom
:) Yes Tom, I did my investigations. Look at what I found on the web:

Dear 1.jpg dear 2.jpg dear 3.jpg dear 4.jpg
 
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P.Hageman

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P.Hageman

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Seems he was a "shoe masons", don't know what that is? Is it a different word for shoemaker??

dear 5.jpg
 

JTD

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Seems he was a "shoe masons", don't know what that is? Is it a different word for shoemaker??

View attachment 622958
Having spent many years transcribing church and census records, I suspect that this is a mistake made when the record was transcribed from the handwritten record to the computer based one.

Modern transcribers, who are/were often young and sometimes not even native English speakers, had great difficulty reading what, to me, is quite readable handwriting. Often they did they know or recognise many trades and place names. Whilst it is a wonderful advance to have the records available on line, one has to be cautious about some of the transcriptions.

Your example could very well be a mis-reading of either 'stone mason' or, possibly, 'shoe maker'.

Can you access the original record?

JTD
 

jmclaugh

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Great to have tracked them down. I've never come across the term 'shoe mason' but Northamptonshire is famous for shoe making and still is. I'd imagine £8 is the cost of the entire clock as some records for a maker's earnings for the year 1810 show he sold 42 clocks for £242 and made a profit of £25.
 

JTD

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No, I don't have acces to those files, I think you must be a paying member. Thanks for your reply.
In 1851 he is described as a 'journeyman mason', so the 1841 entry must, I think, be a mis-reading of 'stone mason'.

JTD
 

gleber

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:) Yes Tom, I did my investigations. Look at what I found on the web:

View attachment 622950 View attachment 622951 View attachment 622952 View attachment 622953
That is very cool and you should attach (associate?) these with the clock as well. I would love to have these kind of details on some of my clocks as I'm sure most of us would. It's almost as interesting as the mechanical and case craftsmanship aspects and makes collecting even more intriguing and fun.

Tom
 

rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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Just bought myselve an English longcase clock with a rocking ship in the arch. But inside the case there is a paper attached which tells the story. How nice to know to whom the clock first belonged as a present on theyre marriage and also the name AND addres of the clockmaker and the casemaker! Never seen that before.

View attachment 622847 View attachment 622848
Congratulations on acquiring what appears to be, from just a head shot, a handsome clock. Would be nice to admire the whole thing.

That note looks nice. The writing, color of the ink and that it is on laid paper (when enlarged, one can see the lines typical of laid paper due to the process by which it was produced) appear "right". Also, the information is verifiable and overall consistent with the object to which it is attached. It appears that there is another label below it??

This note makes sense, the information is verifiable, and it appears to add valid interesting HISTORY to the clock. I dare say that added HISTORY increases the appreciation of that object and has added interesting discussion beyond just the attributes of the clock. It otherwise might have been just another date and id, miscellaneous opinions of whether the hands are original, etc. of a very nice but none the less just another UK tall case.

Unfortunately, many notes attached to old objects, which I sometimes call granny notes, do not, especially those added years later, provide valid info. So, they should be approached with some caution.

Enjoy your very nice clock!

RM
 

novicetimekeeper

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£8 would have bought you a complete brass dial 8 day clock around 1730, so I guess that just shows you why the 19th century was such a boom time for clockmaking as I'm sure wages were not the same as in 1730.
 

jmclaugh

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A nice well proportioned swan neck oak case that appears in good order..
 

jmclaugh

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£8 would have bought you a complete brass dial 8 day clock around 1730, so I guess that just shows you why the 19th century was such a boom time for clockmaking as I'm sure wages were not the same as in 1730.
More people had more money to spend in the 19th than 18th C. I suspect that is a trend before and after both those centuries.
 

P.Hageman

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I have it home and made some additional pictures. It looks like in every corner of this dial there is a haystack?? Does that have a special meaning, or is it someting else what is depicted? The casemaker seems to be a certain Oliver from Spalding. That place is situated 20 miles north of Peterborough.

ship.JPG Hay.JPG casemaker.JPG spalding.jpg
 
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rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

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I have it home and made some additional pictures. It looks like in every corner of this dial there is a haystack?? Does that have a special meaning, or is it someting else what is depicted? The casemaker seems to be a certain Oliver from Spalding. That place is situated 20 miles north of Peterborough.

View attachment 623161 View attachment 623162 View attachment 623163 View attachment 623164
I believe those are actually sheaves of wheat, not hay.

Reflects the agriculture of a rural area??

RM
 

P.Hageman

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Aha, off course sheaves of wheat, that makes sense! Thank you RM.
 

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