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Gilbert gong issue after cleaning and bushing work

legosnell

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Nov 5, 2020
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Cleaned and repaired Gilbert H movement but have issue with gong operation. Running train works fine. The 30 minute bell works on time every 30 minutes but hour gong does not work. Here is what I see happening: center can is operating the lifting lever, lifting lever is raising the count lever out of the deep grove and goes into a holding pattern, when lifting lever clears center cam and drops, things start happening briefly like locking wheel rotates maybe 180 degrees and fan wheel rotates a small amount but count lever falls right back down into the same deep groove, halting gong operation.

What did I do wrong with reassembly?
Appreciate the help
Larry G
 

bikerclockguy

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Jul 22, 2017
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Cleaned and repaired Gilbert H movement but have issue with gong operation. Running train works fine. The 30 minute bell works on time every 30 minutes but hour gong does not work. Here is what I see happening: center can is operating the lifting lever, lifting lever is raising the count lever out of the deep grove and goes into a holding pattern, when lifting lever clears center cam and drops, things start happening briefly like locking wheel rotates maybe 180 degrees and fan wheel rotates a small amount but count lever falls right back down into the same deep groove, halting gong operation.

What did I do wrong with reassembly?
Appreciate the help
Larry G
Sounds like something is binding the main and count wheels and preventing them from turning. is it possible you installed the mainspring backward in the strike train? I assume you took pictures for reference before disassembling it? Not all of them wind the same way. In Ansonias, time train winds to the right, strike winds to the left. In Sessions clocks, both trains wind to the left. I’ve never done a Gilbert, but if you don’t have pics, I’m sure one of the guys on here will know which direction they wind. If that’s installed correctly, I would try backing the lower plate nut closest to the strike side mainspring off just a tad, and see if that frees it up. If so, you can probably figure out what’s binding it.
 
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legosnell

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Sounds like something is binding the main and count wheels and preventing them from turning. is it possible you installed the mainspring backward in the strike train? I assume you took pictures for reference before disassembling it? Not all of them wind the same way. In Ansonias, time train winds to the right, strike winds to the left. In Sessions clocks, both trains wind to the left. I’ve never done a Gilbert, but if you don’t have pics, I’m sure one of the guys on here will know which direction they wind. If that’s installed correctly, I would try backing the lower plate nut closest to the strike side mainspring off just a tad, and see if that frees it up. If so, you can probably figure out what’s binding it.
Ok I'll check that. It also seems strange that the locking wheel only rotates 180 degrees as if it is doing the stopping before the count wheel even gets started rotating.
 

shutterbug

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When the strike is going into warn position, the levers raise and the lowest lever rises up and encounters the stop pin to hold it until the levers drop. That lever should drop down and allow the wheel to spin. It might need to be adjusted a little lower if its not releasing the pin and staying out of the way as it strikes.
 

legosnell

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When the strike is going into warn position, the levers raise and the lowest lever rises up and encounters the stop pin to hold it until the levers drop. That lever should drop down and allow the wheel to spin. It might need to be adjusted a little lower if its not releasing the pin and staying out of the way as it strikes.
I'll check it, it's a slow process since you only get one cycle every hour.
 

legosnell

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I don't know, seems like it's an issue with the count lever where it goes into the deep slot of the count wheel. In the warning position it's lifted out of the deep slot by then (in a holding position) waiting on the lifting lever to drop at center cam. When lifting level drops at center cam, count wheel hasn't rotated enough for count lever to miss falling right back down into the same deep slot. I may have to bend slightly on the count lever end to angle it.

ps: this is a 1912 Gilbert Movement and the count wheel only had deep slots, no shallow slots. I guess the count is done thru spacing between the deep slots.
 

legosnell

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I don't know, seems like it's an issue with the count lever where it goes into the deep slot of the count wheel. In the warning position it's lifted out of the deep slot by then (in a holding position) waiting on the lifting lever to drop at center cam. When lifting level drops at center cam, count wheel hasn't rotated enough for count lever to miss falling right back down into the same deep slot. I may have to bend slightly on the count lever end to angle it.

ps: this is a 1912 Gilbert Movement and the count wheel only had deep slots, no shallow slots. I guess the count is done thru spacing between the deep slots.
There seems to be quite a bit of slop in the count wheel. Back and forth wiggle. Maybe 1/8" slop. It's attached to the great wheel #1 wheel on the mainspring thru three stand off posts that may need to be soldered on the ends where they attach to the count wheel, to stabilize slop and wiggle. Could be the problem or some of it. 20210105_121926.jpg
 
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bikerclockguy

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I‘ve never built a Gilbert, so don’t take my word for this; get a second opinion. I’ve never seen the cam wheel in position as the second wheel, and it looks to me like the locking lever couldn’t line up with it, but then that might just be the camera angle... A883F262-0BE6-4168-BC13-200462156070.jpeg
 

shutterbug

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It looks like you might have some bent trundles in the lantern pinion being driven by the main wheel. That might cause some issues with the attached count wheel. Is the count hook bottoming out on the deep cuts? If so, it might keep the cam lever from going deep enough.
 

shutterbug

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I agree. That's way too much slop in the wheel. If the bushings are tight enough, then the wheel itself has to be repaired.
 
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legosnell

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Took it apart and separated from the mainspring. There is a washer that's supposed to be snapped in place on great wheel to keep all of the play and slop under control, keep the great and count wheel tight. That washer had come loose and was no longer snapped in place instead just freewheeling between mainspring and great wheel. 20210117_135257.jpg 20210117_135346.jpg
 

shutterbug

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Good progress. That washer looks like it should be staked to the wheel. Can you show us a pic with it in place? We need to see how much material you have to stake with.
 

legosnell

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Good progress. That washer looks like it should be staked to the wheel. Can you show us a pic with it in place? We need to see how much material you have to stake with.
Still didn't fix my problem. Still some wiggle in the count wheel, great wheel pretty solid. I think I'm going to move on for now with the going train in good operating condition and the 1/2 hour bell working good. I may come back to this issue latter on when I have a better understanding of how the gong train works, When it goes into warning stage , that little bit of rotation on the locking wheel, does very little to advance the position of the count wheel, resulting in the count lever falling (when it's released) right back down into the same deep groove instead of the elevated surface of the count wheel and then moving to the next deep groove.
 
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legosnell

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I think my problem is the maintenance lever, it's bent and not allowing it to drop into the Maintenance Cam notch. I'm going to play around with bending it some and see results.

untitled (abouttime-clockmaking.com)

The function of this lever is two fold. First, this lever maintains the clearances needed for the stop lever (A) and the count lever (C) when continuing the strike process. This allows the strike train to run until stop conditions are met. Second, the maintenance lever (B), by dropping into the notch in the maintenance cam (I), allows the stop lever (A) and count lever (C) to fall into a stop/lock position.
 

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