German Westminster - What is it?

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by Dave T, Mar 12, 2019.

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  1. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Recently acquired this clock, (for free). Didn't really want it, but here it is. As you can see the finish has some major cracking. Is there any salvation for that?
    And since I don't have it yet, this is the only picture of the movement.
    Wonder who the manufacture is?

    German Westminster 1.jpg German Westminster.jpg German Westminster 1.jpg German Westminster.jpg
     
  2. wow

    wow Registered User
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    Can’t read the name on dial. Can you?
     
  3. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Yep, it says Westminster. It's also a platform escapement. I'll post some more pictures when I get it. So far, haven't found one like it online. The friend offering it said his father bought it in Germany, I'm guessing probably in the 50s. He also bought a nice cuckoo at the same time. No information on it however.
    A lot of these type clocks that I've seen, had a very shiny smooth finish, but prone to cracking.
     
  4. Isaac

    Isaac Registered User

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  5. shutterbug

    shutterbug Moderator
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    It has an English look to it.
     
  6. D.th.munroe

    D.th.munroe Registered User

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  7. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Well, not to me. To my eye it is a typical German clock of the style 'Büffetuhr'. I am not sure but am wondering if it may have been made in the DDR.

    Is there anything stamped on the base or on the wood inside the case?

    JTD
     
  8. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Thanks, I think you've nailed it.

    When I get the clock I'll take some better pictures and look for any stampings.
     
  9. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Since I wrote my post (#7) I have been looking around and agree that the mysterious HAPEANKER does look very similar to yours, both in terms of case and movement.

    I am very puzzled by the name HAPEANKER - I cannot find any source which identifies who used this name. The pictures I have seen of this logo are not very sharp and I do wonder if it may in fact say something else, but, on the other hand, everyone who posts about it seems to use the same reading. I shall keep looking, it ought to be possible to find it, but so far I have not done so.

    Maybe someone else knows about HAPEANKER clocks.

    JTD
     
  10. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    Is Karl Jauch any relation to Johannes Jauch of Urgos fame? Just a random thought ran through my head (most of my thoughts are random), but isn't "Ha" the German pronunciation of the letter "H," and couldn't "pe" represent the German pronunciation of the letter P"? So, "H' = Haller, and "P" = Pabst (both also of Urgos fame). But that's probably kinda far-fetched.
     
  11. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Steven, you are right about the pronunciation of the H & P and the idea is certainly not far-fetched, it's what a lot of German manufacturers did when thinking up a trade name or logo.

    However, as I understand the rather complex family structure of the Jauchs, Karl was the brother of Theodor Jauch and the two brothers founded the company Gebrüder Jauch in 1924. They parted company in 1935 and Karl went off and started his own company, Karl Jauch Uhrenfabrikation. As far as I can tell, he was no relation to Johannes Jauch of Urgos. (His brother Theodor continued, taking his son Rolf into the company and carried on using the name Gebrüder Jauch).

    Now let me muddy the waters a little more. I have tried to find a little more on the Dubel clock posted earlier. I have found a few examples,
    all very like the Hapeanker one under discussion, both for movement and case design, but surprisingly no one seems to have any idea who used the trade name Dubel. So now we have two vitually identical clocks, Hapeanker and Dubel, both with the word Westminster in very similar lettering, to which no one seems to be able to attribute a maker.

    Let us suppose that the movement is indeed from Karl Jauch, as has been already suggested above, then it seems that he must have sold movements (or even complete clocks) to other dealers who put their own trade names/logos on the dials.

    But it would be so nice to know who that was..........

    JTD
     
  12. Isaac

    Isaac Registered User

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    The front of the movement might contain manufacturer markings. Some German companies placed their names at the front of the movement instead of the back, and I'd imagine this to be true more so if the clock is being retailed underneath a certain distributor.
     
  13. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    This is sometimes true, but the movements I was able to see had nothing on either side.

    JTD
     
  14. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    I do have this picture, but I see some writing on the 9 o'clock position only. Looks like stop and ?? Maybe a chime shutoff switch?
    German Westminster 3.jpg
     
  15. Isaac

    Isaac Registered User

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    I'd say you're right in stating that it is a chime/silence lever.
     
  16. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Yea, Here's the same clock and almost the same case, except for the moulding on the front bottom section.
     
  17. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    These 'Buffetuhren' were particularly popular in Europe after the second world war though this style had begun right before war broke out in 1939. It was a development of existing modern tambours but with longer cases. Effectively a cross between modern styling, deep voiced gongs, and ease of construction which all went together during the depression years & after the war as the German factories were recovering from postwar deconstruction & subsequent rebuilding. One has to remember what an effort it was for the remainder of surviving German companies to restructure and continue clock production during that time when machinery and resources were extremely constrained.

    Seemingly every German company was making these clocks and they were usually leased out to regional retailers which accounts for the marketer names sometimes found on the dial. Sometimes the makers' name goes on the dial instead. K. Jauch was simply one of those several companies making clocks alongside others such as Junghans, Kienzle, Mauthe, and Urgos.

    The buffetuhren saw its heyday during the 1950s-1960's but the decline of the European clock industry marked the end of these clocks. Though the buffetuhren are very popular in Europe they are obscure in America where the style never caught any foothold. This particular style never caught on in England where smaller mantel clocks were more desirable. As these clocks become older and eventually recognized as antiques, hopefully more will be done to document them.
     
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  18. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    I would have to say I'm not fond of the style either. And the thing is probably 2 1/2' long?

    No one has commented on the quality of the movement, with the platform escapement.

    Or, what it will involve to deal with the crackled finish.

    I'm running out of shelves and flat surfaces!
    I could suspend it from the ceiling as if it was a model airplane! :)
     
  19. chimeclockfan

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    These clocks would typically go on a table or cabinet to accommodate the clock's length.
    Movement quality for buffetuhren is normally considered "middle of the road" and are comparable with those used on smaller tambours of the period.
    No matter the make, movements with platforms or lever escapements tend to be reviled by repairmen due to the fragility of such escapements. The majority of buffetuhren have three train chime movements which can be a challenge to service and repair.

    I would try some wood polish to see if this does anything to help the crackling.

    The biggest redeeming factors on these clocks would be the deep sonorous chimes and modern looks. I think these clocks are neat in their own way but I simply don't have any table long enough to hold such a clock.
     
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  20. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Finally got the clock.
    The good: It runs perfectly, cobwebs, dirt and all.
    The bad: The finish on the case has consistent hairline cracks throughout.
    No chipping however, and the finish is still very shiny. I don't see any solution to this except to strip it to bare wood and start over.
     
  21. shutterbug

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    You could try wetting the finish with alcohol and seeing if the cracks will smooth out first.
     
  22. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Wouldn't require much effort to try. I'll do it.
    The finish reminds me of what they used to use on old Mercedes dash trim.
    I tried to refinish one of those one time, and it turned into a disaster. That stuff is hard as iron. Whatever it is.
     
  23. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Gave it a lick and a promise.
    German Westminster 4.jpg
     
  24. shutterbug

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    How does it look? Can't tell from the pic :)
     
  25. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    That was on purpose! :) If you look at it casually it looks fine, and you wouldn't even notice the finish problems.
    This is a 15 foot clock. Looks pretty good from a distance. But the cracks are still there.
     
  26. chimeclockfan

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    Looks good to me. I would leave the case as-is.
     
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  27. Dave T

    Dave T Registered User
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    Yea, that's what I decided. Without close scrutiny it looks fine. But closeup, you can see that it's all veneer and is actually curling away all along the bottom edge.

    As for the movement, there are no markings on it that I can see, but it runs very well, super quiet and strikes promptly. And of course, the platform escapement is not finicky about sitting level and no out of beat adjustments to contend with.
     

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