German Wall Clock Time Spring Needs to Be Replaced... nothing more

[blindraccoon]

I would appreciate some advice on the repair of a broken (barrel) spring in a German clock movement. I must assume most members here can do this type of repair, but unfortunately, I can't. And because you are skillful at doing your own repairs, you don't have to take your clock movements to someone else to do the work. Is it wrong to expect to get an 'estimate quote' to just replace the spring? Aside from the spring, all is quite up to snuff with this movement. I couldn't get a straight answer/quote from two different clock shops.

 

[Dick Feldman]

Hello Blindraccoon,

Your clock may have run fine before the spring went haywire. In reality, the spring may not be broken. There are component parts in the winding system that may have gone wrong that may seem to a novice as a broken spring. If the spring has truly broken the resultant shock may have broken/bent teeth on the barrel, the second wheel and possibly bent the second or third wheel arbors.
Your diagnosis may not be complete.
Main spring assemblies are built differently. Some require the movement be disassembled for repair; some can be removed with the rest of the movement in tact.
What about the other mainspring assemblies in the movement? If, for instance, one click has failed, what about the other (2?) main spring assemblies? All of the trains in a clock are wound the same number of times giving the strong possibility of impending problems in the other train(s).
What if the repair person corrected only the problem you request? Would you be happy if the clock would not run when you got it back? If he/she replaced the main spring and the problem is actually something else, would you be happy to pay the bill? What if the clock movement is worn out (they are machines and will wear with time) and the movement gave poor service when you got it back? Would you be satisfied?
I give a free, written estimate for each clock repair. I do that to provide an even playing field. If my customer feels it too expensive to properly repair the clock, it costs him/her nothing. I could no more give you an honest estimate to repair your clock over the phone than fix your car while you were driving it down the road.
The people on this board represent hundreds of years of experience in repairing clocks. I think you have landed in a good place to get advice.

Best regards,

Dick Feldman

 

[blindraccoon]

Hi Dick, Appreciate your reply very much... I sent a very detailed reply a moment ago and hit 'submit quick reply' and was told I needed to log-in again? In one fell swoop, my entire reply was deleted. I will try again tomorrow~

 

[shutterbug]

I would want to see the movement. After inspecting it, I would give you my opinion on what it really needs. Then, if you only wanted the spring replaced I would give you a quote with the explicit understanding that if the spring does not perform as you hoped, I would be held blameless. That's the best I could offer.

 

[kinsler33]

Do you know if the spring is indeed broken? I diagnosed just such a problem in a Gustav Becker wall clock, and the problem turned out to be a pinion that was spinning on its shaft.

Most clocks must be completely disassembled to get to the mainspring. There are some with removable spring barrels, but even those require a certain amount of work. And, as others have noticed, springs often cause considerable collateral damage to gear teeth and shafts when they break. That's because all of their stored energy is released at once.

Once the clock is disassembled anyway, nobody of reasonable conscience is going to re-assemble it without giving it a proper cleaning and then tending to the bearings. If indeed the spring is broken, it's typically wise to look at the other mainspring as well, and removing the springs from their barrels, stretching them out, and lubricating them is typically part of a good overhaul anyway.

That said, you ought to be able to get a fairly accurate quote from a good clock repair shop. Keep looking until you find one that makes sense.

Mark Kinsler
Lancaster, Ohio

 

[BigAl]

I would appreciate some advice on the repair of a broken (barrel) spring in a German clock movement. I must assume most members here can do this type of repair, but unfortunately, I can't. And because you are skillful at doing your own repairs, you don't have to take your clock movements to someone else to do the work. Is it wrong to expect to get an 'estimate quote' to just replace the spring? Aside from the spring, all is quite up to snuff with this movement. I couldn't get a straight answer/quote from two different clock shops.

I raise four questions here. 1. What makes you think that the spring is actually broken? 2. What, in your opinion, made the spring break? 3. Do you know what other damages was done to the movement when the spring broke? and 4. How do you know that the rest of the movement is okay (a very ambiguous term and not actually very helpful)?

 

[blindraccoon]

Hi All, Back again this a.m. btw, I do hope that my initial question did not give the impression that I was actually requesting a 'quote'... I realize that a myriad of issues can arise as a result of a broken mainspring. Over the years I have had numerous clocks break a mainspring, and one with obvious excess damage. One over-sized New Haven wall clock mainspring snapped as it was running and while I was sitting at my desk. It sounded like a gun had gone off in the room. One of the hands was actually laying at the bottom of the dial. There probably should have been supplemental damage in that instance, but there wasn't. When I requested a quote to replace the spring in this movement, that's what I expected, but with the caveat that I would be advised IF there was any additional 'unseen' damage, that would prevent the movement from working properly. One shop asked where the case was and then talked about various costs of springs? I simply asked for a quote to replace the spring, assuming he/she would use the correct and best quality spring available. I concluded my visit there fairly quickly. Because I had only brought the movement and pendulum/key with me, the other shop asked me to bring the hands in. Didn't try to wind it. I guess maybe then I will get a quote? He did note that there was no visible damage to the movement, i.e., gears, teeth, click spring(s). This particular movement was cleaned/refurbished a little over a year ago. At that time, the springs seemed to be in good shape and no need to replace either. I am fairly confident the spring just finally took its last quiet breath and gave out as quite a number of my clock movements have done in the past. I am in a new location with limited repair people in close proximity. 25++ years when I fell into the addiction of clocks, I purchased a fairly inexpensive but beautiful walnut Ingraham mantle clock. It drove me crazy that it would not chime on the appropriate hour/1/2 hour. I brought that clock into a local shop and he whisked it away to the back room. He returned about 8 minutes later with the clock chiming perfectly and said, 'that'll be $50.' I was so thrilled that I gladly wrote him a check! It's unfortunate that I learned soon thereafter exactly what he did to correct the chime strike... and to think he could have had my clock repair business for the next 20 years.

 

[Rob P.]

In addition to Big Al's questions I have something more to add.

Springs rarely break when the movement is new or nearly new. Springs usually break because of repeat stresses that cause failure. So, if in fact your mainspring has broken, the clock is not necessarily in "as new" condition. There may be unseen wear that will affect the clock's performance so replacing just the mainspring may not help you get it running again.

In addition, when mainsprings break they tend to cause additional damage to other components. Mainly bent or broken gears. Those parts aren't always readily available and either have to be salvaged from a donor movement or re-made. In either case, the parts aren't cheap and unless replaced, the clock still won't run.

If you have any clear pictures of the movement we'd like to see them. With pics we can help diagnose if you have any other issues you may not be aware of.

 

[blindraccoon]

Thanks Shutterbug... you hit right on the nail head!

 

[blindraccoon]

 

[BigAl]

Difficult to tell from the picture but is the strike click properly located in its ratchet wheel?

 

[blindraccoon]

- - - Updated - - -

Hi Big Al,
Just posted another view/pic. Hopefully this one is a bit clearer. Thanks for your previous input/information!

 

[Willie X]

I'm pretty sure that one has to come apart for a spring repair, or replace. It is much less expensive to have your clock repaired fully while its apart. In my shop there is no warranty on movements that are not in the case.
Also, as others have already said, I give no warranty for partial repairs. And rarely will do I take in a clock for a specified or partial repair.
Willie X

 

[blindraccoon]

Difficult to tell from the picture but is the strike click properly located in its ratchet wheel?

Hi Big Al, After receiving your post re: the strike click and ratchet wheel, I took the (posted) picture. The problem I was having is with the time side spring. But after your inquiry, I looked very closely at that strike click and it DID NOT look like it was snuggly positioned in the ratchet wheel. You brought this up and that's what got me going. Not knowing what would happen and at that moment, not caring, I unscrewed the strike click. I heard just a couple of seconds of the 'whirring' sound. I discovered then that I could not reinstall the strike click screw no matter how hard I tried lining it perfectly. That screw would just go round and round and not stay tight. Frustrated, I left the strike click off the movement and went to the dog park. Upon my return, I tried something that seemed illogical to me. I took the key and very apprehensively gave the winding arbor a turn or two. I am only assuming that it would not have turned any more than that given the fact I could not completely wind the spring yesterday and 'assumed' it was stressed and it broke. All it did after a couple of winds was turn/turn/turn going nowhere. Now, I lined up the click spring and put the screw in and it took hold... gave the winding arbor another couple of turns and the screw then became tight. I slowly wound the arbor maybe 4 times, scared the key might go off in my hand. (I killed a thumb nail a couple of years ago when a key spun out in my hand.) I then slid the movement back in the case and all is great again. Clock has been running and chiming for the past 4 hours. Ya'll are right when you said, 'how do you know it's a broken spring?' Obviously, I didn't and it wasn't, but it sure felt like it. Again, thanks to everybody for taking the time to reply.

 

[BigAl]

I am glad that you seem to have got your clock working but, I ask, working at what cost? It was pointed out in an earlier posts that when a spring gives way it can cause other collateral damage. Taking the click off and just letting the train run wild might well have done just that. The fact that the click failed in the first place, plus now the knowledge that you let the train ran free implies that there are other problems with the movement; possibly unseen at present but when they reappear there is a very good chance that there will be even more work needed to get your clock into A1 condition.

My personal opinion is that the repairers you requested a quote from were correct in refusing your request. Without a proper disassemble and inspection I doubt that anyone can accurately say what needs doing. And that, my friend, still applies.

BigAl