German musical alarm carriage clock

[Missy]

It seems I have seen this trademark before, but can't find anything on it. No mark on the movement. I know many German makers have made this type clock. I have been watching for them quite a few years looking for the musical movement for a Mauthe one I have.

Anyone know the maker and approximate year?

Thanks,
Missy

 

[Ansomnia]

Missy, I believe there were a number of Mauthe trademarks with an eagle.

But I only found one (from 1930) which just has an eagle without any wording or other icons. The period and the look of this clock are consistent with each other.

I also looked up a Latin dictionary and I think "bess libertas" means "freedom close at hand".


Michael

 

[Missy]

Thanks Michael, I appreciate that information. I had found out by searching the internet that libertas was liberty, but had no idea about the bess.

Missy

 

[new2clocks]

Missy / Michael,

I have not seen a Mauthe trademark such as the eagle shown on the clock shown by Missy.

Here is a musical carriage clock by Mauthe of the same vintage.

Regards.

 

[Missy]

new2clocks, that looks like the other musical carriage clock I have. It is marked on the back of the movement by a double oval with Mauthe on top and Germany on bottom stamped inbetween the double lines. It is painted black except for the brass front and back door. Is yours black and does it have Mauthe stamped on the back of the movement? This is one I gathered up out of a field after a child had torn it up. It didn't have the dial, bezel or glass so I don't know if it had the Mauthe emblem on the dial or not. That is an eagle on your dial, isn't it?

Thanks,
Missy

 

[Albra]

Hello Missy and all.

your have a nice alarm! In Germany we call these kind of alarms "Joker" (don´t ask me why!) The eagle-head on your dial is not a trademark, but just a decoration.
Comparing your alarm with the alarm of new2clock´s alarm, I guess, your alarm was made by Mauthe,too. The best way is, to compare fotos of the movements.

Albra

 

[zepernick]

Greetings all -- The basic design appeared in the 1879 Seth Thomas catalogue as "Joker Lever" and was then later directly imitated by several German manufacturers. Junghans for example had taken over the style and the name (at first spelling it "Jocker") probably before 1885 and definitely before 1891. A Hamburg-American "Joker" (and so called) is found in an 1889 HAU catalogue. And Junghans was still making the "classic" Joker style into the 1930s.

However. There is a 11-page article that traces the American origins and German connection (and some French ones too) entitled "One Man's Joker: Another Man's Japy" in the October 1998 _NAWCC Bulletin_. It was reprinted in total from the December and January 1997 _CLOCKS_ article. As far as I know, this is the most complete source of information to date.

The "Germany" on the dial by the way indicates that the clock was made after 1913. The specific requirement that all watch and clock DIALS be marked with the country of origin came with the (US) Tariff of 1913, popularly known as the Underwood-Simmons Tariff Act.

 

[new2clocks]

Missy,

Here are pictures of the dial and back plate. The back plate may be difficult to read, but it is the oval with Mauthe on top and Germany on the bottom.

Regards.

 

[Missy]

New2, thanks for posting the pictures. Your movement is exactly like my old "beat-up" Mauthe. (Not like my new clock) Could you post or email a picture of the complete dial? I havent given up on it yet. The movement works good. I have the bezel although it is badly bent. I could make a copy of your dial and order a glass and hands. I am still watching for the musical movement to fit it.

Back to the new clock. I am going to try to get a good picture of the movement to post. One thing I did notice, there is a wire on the front side that comes up from the alarm set that will interfer with the fan as the time gets further away from the alarm time. (I don't think my old Mauthe had that unless it was broken off.) I haven't taken it out of the case yet but will have to as it needs a good cleaning. Maybe I will find a clue. Even though it's not too old or remarkable in any way, it's a nice little clock, runs well, the music works and the case is in good condition.

Thanks to all who have given information. Zep, I have a gap in my Bulletins and don't have those issues. It seems everytime I need to look up something, I am missing that issue.

Missy

 

[RJSoftware]

Hey Missy;

I have a Mauthe clock just like new2clocks. Same thing.

On mine it has 2 busted gears I been meaning to get to. 1 gear is pushed by a worm gear to spin the fly. Watch out for that gear cause it's a cheap little fiberboard type gear. Kinda like plastic.

The second gear I busted. My own dumb fault. Trying to totally dismantle the clock, you have to pull the little external gear made of brass that is part of the motion works. If you can avoid messing with it. Avoid it...

Trying to slide mine off the minute hand arbor it cracked a few teeth when I tried to pry it off.

You can get most of the gears off without removing the minute hand arbor anyway, so I would suggest leaving it alone.

Btw, I would like to see the music box pic from beneath. Mine has a sloppy looking couple of pieces of wood to hold the music box against driving gear.

Not a good arrangement. Hard for me to believe that would be original.

RJ

 

[new2clocks]

Missy / RJ,

As requested. RJ - The bottom to my Mauthe is also made of wood.

Regards.

 

[Missy]

Thanks for posting the picture New2, that's what I needed. I have never used the Paint Shop, but I will give it a try when I get one of Mike P.'s "round tuits". It may be a little awkward for me since I am left handed, but use the mouse with my right.

R.J., I remember your little Mauthe. Sorry about the broken wheels. Both of mine have that little phenolic wheel too. About the way the music mvt. is mounted, I believe that is the way they all are made, at least all of those I have seen. They are not a high end clock, more of a novelty clock, I think. I am sure hundreds of thousands of them were made over a lot of years. Maybe the older ones were made better, but as the years went by there was less quality. I was intrigued by the dial, but may never find out who made it. Maybe one day..........

I will try to get pictures posted of the movement and bottom of the clock showing the music mvt. mounting tomorrow.

Missy

 

[Patrick R]

Hey Missy i'll bet my clock is more beat-up than your!
See what you think.
Pat

 

[Missy]

I am attaching a picture of my new clock's movement, wire that catches the fly and the way the musical movement is attached. I can't seem to get a good clear picture, but maybe you can get an idea. I am not sure if the musical mvt. is original to the clock as there are extra holes on the two pieces of wood. Also, it doesn't seem to fit well in the case. Someone has worked on it before. I may just leave it as is for now. I don't plan to run it until I can check it out.

Pat, your little Mauthe clock wins hands down. What happened to it? Did it get run over by a Mac truck? After seeing yours, I don't think mine is in too bad a shape now. I have attached a picture of the little beauty. :wink

The pictures didn't come out in the order I wanted. The last picture is of my new (unknown maker) clock. Also the first and second picture. The third picture is of my "beat-up" Mauthe.

Missy

 

[Patrick R]

Missy I bought a house full of clocks back in the early 90's, and the man that owned them was a recluse and they had to put him in a nursing home. His house was bought as is by some people who called me asking if I would be interested in buying some clocks. When I got there the house was full of junk, lawn mower parts you name it, no electricity no running water etc. They had to make a path in the living room just to get through the room. Any way he had clocks in every room and in the attic. So most of the clock were in some need of repair, but I can say I have a lot of old clock parts that will keep me going for a long time. If I can find my old pics of the inside of this house I will post them .
Pat

 

[Patrick R]

Missy
I think these pics give a new name to Pack Rat
Believe it or not I did aquire several good looking clocks that I was able to sell to recoup my investment. My good friend helped me unload this house. We used an 18 foot u-haul truck, and it took us three days to load this stuff up. There is a pic of him in his dirty cloths whil we were loading. This house was in Tulsa, OK. Thought you all might like to see how other people like to live.
Pat

 

[Missy]

Oh my Is this what happens to people that work on clocks for too long? Surely he did at one time to have all those clocks and parts around. I am a pack rat, but it hasn't gotten quite that bad YET. If my children take pictures and put them on the net, I'll come back and haunt them.

Missy

 

[Patrick R]

Missy YOUR FUNNY
I was talking to my friend after we gathered all those clocks and stuff, and I told him that I couldn't believe that someone could live like that, And my friend just laughed and said well I guess now you will know what its like to live like that ,because you now have all his junk at your house.
Any way Missy, from what I was told, before he got in the watch and clock repair business, he worked for Phillips Petrolum repairing oil field gas meters etc. And they said he worked on watch and clocks for aprox. 35 years. I have a lot of american mantle clocks that he took the movement out of and he took all of the faces and bezels ect out, so I have boxs of faces dials movements glass you name it. There was a lot of the realy old cuckoo clocks that most of them were in bad shape, except the movements were in great shape. He must of just thrown stuff up in the attic. One last story they told me was he didn,t have any electricty to keep his food cool, so he would hang food from coat hangers to keep the rats from eating his food. Some body please shoot me if I get like that.
Pat

 

[RJSoftware]

Hey life gets dirty sometimes. Least he was persuing his passions.

We all get dirty and nasty in the end. We come into this life needing diapers, we go out the same. If we are lucky..!

When I was an electrician we had contracts to do remodels on lot's of older citizen's homes.

You'd see some pretty nasty conditions. It's always the same ol story. Loner, kids don't come arround to help.

People in that condition get tired easy. They where so happy just to see our faces, our company. They get lonley.

Some become cat people. Others dogs. I would think clocks to be cleaner.

Years upon years of lost projects. Left in drawers of good intentions. Makes me sad thinking about it.

Picture yourself in those later years. Your spouse gone/dead, your children buisy with thier own lives. You need something, anything.

RJ

 

[Missy]

Follow up on my "Bess Libertas" German musical alarm clock. I just saw one with the same dial on EBay. It has a movement marked Mauthe in it. I now believe my case and dial are Mauthe, but it has an unmarked replacement movement in it. That is why it doesn't fit well in the case.

Missy

 

[gwood]

http://home.apu.edu/~gwood/joker1.JPGLooks like I have come across a Missy Joker musical alarm clock alsohttp://home.apu.edu/~gwood/joker2.JPG

 

[Missy]

Hi gwood, yes, that is just like my clock. I really like these little musical alarm clocks. They are pretty rugged little movements. There seems to be a lot around, but I haven't seen many with "Bess Libertas" and the eagle head on the dial. I'm pretty sure they are by Mauthe, but there is nothing on the face or movement stating Mauthe.

Does yours have anything stamped on the movement? Mine doesn't have anything on the movement. It has Germany printed on the bottom of the dial.

Missy

 

[laprade]

Missy; have a look at this thread, it deals with your type of movement.

http://www.mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?t=65874

 

[The Stickman]

Greetings all -- The basic design appeared in the 1879 Seth Thomas catalogue as "Joker Lever" and was then later directly imitated by several German manufacturers. Junghans for example had taken over the style and the name (at first spelling it "Jocker") probably before 1885 and definitely before 1891. A Hamburg-American "Joker" (and so called) is found in an 1889 HAU catalogue. And Junghans was still making the "classic" Joker style into the 1930s.

However. There is a 11-page article that traces the American origins and German connection (and some French ones too) entitled "One Man's Joker: Another Man's Japy" in the October 1998 _NAWCC Bulletin_. It was reprinted in total from the December and January 1997 _CLOCKS_ article. As far as I know, this is the most complete source of information to date.

The "Germany" on the dial by the way indicates that the clock was made after 1913. The specific requirement that all watch and clock DIALS be marked with the country of origin came with the (US) Tariff of 1913, popularly known as the Underwood-Simmons Tariff Act.

That's some good info. thanx.

 

[gwood]

My movement is not marked either... cute little clock even if I don't ever get it running...

 

[zepernick]

A small correction on the extract above. The requirement that the dial also be marked was in the 1909 Tariff.

Zep

 

[zepernick]

A friend in Germany has identified the clock as having been made by the Uhrenfabrik Villingen.

And it is so neat (<-- as you young folk no doubt say ) that we have clockies from around the world contributing to this Message Board.

Regards
Zep

 

[Missy]

Zep, thank you for that information and please thank your friend in Germany. I think it is amazing that we have people from all over the world who contribute to this message board. Seems the fascination for mechanical clocks is worldwide.

Since my movement does not look like gwood's, I think my movement has been replaced. I have been looking at these clocks and have not found a movement that looks like mine. Does any one have a marked clock with a movement like mine?

Gwood, have you gotten you clock running? They seem to be such sturdy little movements. The one I gathered up out of a field after a child had torn it up started ticking when I wound it up. If the hair spring is not messed up or that little phenolic wheel is not broken I would think a cleaning and oiling would get it going, although I don't think the phenolic wheel should get wet.

Is the musical movement still there and all the tines intact? They seem to be missing on a lot of them.

Missy

 

[jboger]

I just found the same clock with the eagle and Libertas Bess" printed on the dial a few days ago. Someone in an earlier post attempted to disassemble the clock. Just a word of caution. After removing the hands and dial, the next thing to do is remove the balance spring stud and the slip the balance spring free of the regulator. One can then back off on the screws used to set the endshake on the balance. With care (always!) one should then be able to lift the entire balance assembly out.

John