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George M Wheeler (AKA G.M. Wheeler) show them off

musicguy

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In circa 2009 I bought one of my sons an Elgin 1885 18s Coin Silver Hunting cased G.M Wheeler,
the Gentleman's Watch. It was my son's first pocket watch. As seen in the photos
below and in the 1885 S.F. Meyers & Co. jobbers catalog December 1887 Supplement.
We were both excited when he got it.

DSC_6060.JPG DSC_6064.JPG December_Supplemzent[1].jpg



EDIT till I do more research on George M Wheeler I have removed some information




Post some of your G.M Wheelers of all sizes.



Rob
 

Rick Hufnagel

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There are some really good fakes out there. That barrel bridge is usually the tell. For some reason they just can't get the shape, size and screws just right. The Hairspring stud is also a giveaway, but your fake actually has a close match!
 

Rick Hufnagel

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Here's a grade 338gmw 16s model 7 three finger bridge that I had untill recently. Unfortunately i just was never going to take the time to finish it.
Anyways, nice gold filled engraving, adjusted, and 17 jewels. A far cry from the first G.M. Wheeler grades.

IMG_20190223_162847341.jpg
 

Jerry Treiman

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Thanks, Rob! As a geologist I have long been familiar with the Wheeler surveys, but never connected it with the G.M. Wheeler of the National Watch Co. I am going to have to get one now.
 

Patrick Brady

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This is one of my favorites. The uniqueness in the local Ohio connection, magnificent case, transitional key wind/stem wind, and lever set all make for a nice piece. I'm no expert, but here's what I know. Elgin 11 jewel, grade 63, class 4. Labeled J.B. Hudson, Washington Court House, Ohio.

s-l1600-7.jpg s-l1600-8.jpg s-l1600-12.jpg
 

musicguy

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Thanks, Rob! As a geologist I have long been familiar with the Wheeler surveys, but never connected it with the G.M. Wheeler of the National Watch Co. I am going to have to get one now.
Sorry Jerry,

I'm having my doubts that maybe I made a mistake with George M. Wheeler(cartographer) he
would have been 22 in 1864. I think the wikipedia might be wrong(or linked wrong)?
I think it's a different G.M. Wheeler.

It needs more research....


I think I may need to edit the first post.(I'm going to remove the info till I'm sure)

Rob
 

musicguy

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Here is a (maybe original side winder) 1885 grade 82 in a 4oz coin case
(it's been serviced since this photo and the regulator is back on the
traveling nut) And it now has matching hands.(I really should take some new photos)


3. 1885(not serviced) Elgin Pocket Watch Hunter 18s PW LS  15J.jpg 7. 1885(not serviced) Elgin Pocket Watch Hunter 18s PW LS  15J.jpg


Rob
 

musicguy

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Here is another Grade 57 like Dave's above
I have posted this one already(in another thread) I guess it has the wrong dial
and should have a notional dial(based on it's serial number).

gm wheeler.jpg gm wheelert.jpg


Rob
 

Rick Hufnagel

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Here is a (maybe original side winder) 1885 grade 82 in a 4oz coin case
(it's been serviced since this photo and the regulator is back on the
traveling nut)

Thanks for sharing that Rob. It's from the run 1630001-1645000 that I think at this point may be the first run of 15 jewel grade 82. From collected serials and examples, it's looking to be true. It's a mixed run of 13 and 15 jewel, and oddly enough is the earliest I've seen a patent regulator on a grade 82 as well.

The grade 82 is an interesting movement. It started as a 13 jewel series 2. The first 4 runs totaling 8000 serial numbers make up the series 2.

At 874001 it becomes a series 3. The difference being the keyless works used in the two models.

There may be some model overlap in the 874001 run. I have not been able to confirm yet. It's listed as series 3d in the 1896 grade list.


The hardest one to find I think, would be a 13 jewel with a patent regulator! At this point I'm figuring only one run, mixed with 15 jewel movements, has this configuration.
 
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Jerry Treiman

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I'm having my doubts that maybe I made a mistake with George M. Wheeler(cartographer) he
would have been 22 in 1864.
They do appear to be two different G.M. Wheelers. George Montague Wheeler, the engineer and surveyor, graduated from West Point in 1866 and hence was unlikely to be an Elgin Director in 1865.
 

musicguy

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Circa 1910 12 size grade 347 marked adjusted in two places
(and plate #'s match)....it's double adjusted;)


IMG_0426.jpg IMG_7051.jpg v.jpg



Rob
 

PW Collector

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I'm not sure if the dial & hands are correct for mine.
Dial is: National Watch Co.
Movement is marked: California Watch
It is a lift-out movement in a case marked GEM 101517
The Elgin Database shows:
Serial Number 376079
Name: GMW
Grade 63 ("Transitional" either keywind or pendant wind)
Class: 4
18 size 11-13 jewels
1875 production year
It is a lever set (sidewinder) movement.
Missing housing around keywind arbor.
Dave

IMG_1124.JPG IMG_1126.JPG IMG_1127.JPG IMG_1125.JPG
 

Rick Hufnagel

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Oh my gosh it's like a gold mine.

Dial, no. With series 2, only the very very very earliest MAY have had national dials, but I'm leaning toward no. Even the ones in the 155xxx and earlier are Elgin marked, they were not actually produced untill much later. Serial dating on these is not very accurate.

Out of more than. A couple dozen recorded, and many more seen in passing, I have 2 national dials. One is Def switched, one is the earliest stemwinder known to me.

The hands are all over the map. So far the only thing standing out is hh Taylor series 2 with moon hands. But honestly my observations so far, anything goes. I doubt the louis are original, but you never know.

It's 11 jewel.

Anyways you and Patrick up above have made my week thank you! Awesome watch!
 
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Oh my gosh it's like a gold mine.

Dial, no. With series 2, only the very very very earliest MAY have had national dials, but I'm leaning toward no. Even the ones in the 155xxx and earlier are Elgin marked, they were not actually produced untill much later. Serial dating on these is not very accurate.

Out of more than. A couple dozen recorded, and many more seen in passing, I have 2 national dials. One is Def switched, one is the earliest stemwinder known to me.

The hands are all over the map. So far the only thing standing out is hh Taylor series 2 with moon hands. But honestly my observations so far, anything goes. I doubt the louis are original, but you never know.

Anyways you and Patrick up above have made my week thank you! Awesome watch!
Rick, thanks for the info, that the dial is not correct as I suspected. I only have one National Watch Co. dial that I know is correct. It is on a H.Z Culver Grade 62, Model 1, serial number 1731. The case is inscribed:
Geo. D. Barnard
From
HIS FRIENDS
WITH
Culver, Page & Hoyne
NOVEMBER 22ND 1867
I have it posted somewhere on this forum.
Dave
 

Rick Hufnagel

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Yes sir! Ive p.m.ed you, but in case anyone else here is curious, I have one other recorded from this run

376065. "New England watch co" s.s dial. I couldn't read the private label, but it says San Fransisco above the regulator.

Unless the new England watch co was in San Fransisco, the dial is suspect. Lol

Cut out balance cock, rounded barrel bridge with 2 screw key guard, slide lever.
 

musicguy

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Very nice!

I would guess that the very early G.M. Wheeler serial Number 16738 is from circa 1867-1868
Do you have a photo of the dial side?


Rob
 
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musicguy

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pmwas

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Yes, there is - for example - BWR No 182,499 with d/s NWCo dial once shown by Luis Casillas in his presentation...

Oh... too late ;)
 
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GeneJockey

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AH! Excellent! I do wonder how many survived, since they're more fragile and harder to fix than single sunk dials, and how many were originally made.

My BWR, 129194, has a single sunk National dial. My Grade 69 "BWR", 865305, has a double sunk 'Elgin Nat'l Watch Co.' dial.
 

musicguy

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How about the GM Wheeler 18s model 5? Grades 44 and 75??
Rick I do have a grade 75 but it is a Nameless Grade not marked GMW
IMG_6135.jpg

Nameless Grades
"Up until the mid to late 1870s, Elgin used grade names to keep track of the different
types of watches they made and had no concept of grade numbers. Around this time,
Elgin started producing "Nameless" watches, with just the company name on them.
A few years later, Elgin went back and assigned grade
numbers to all grades, including the watches that had previously only had a name.
This is the reason why the very first watch that Elgin produced was a grade 69 instead
of what you might expect to be called grade number 1. The grade 1 is a nameless
grade, and was assigned its number before Elgin went back and assigned numbers
to their named grades."
(from: The Elgin Watch Collectors Site
by Wayne Schlitt elginwatches.org
[ELGIN] Glossary: Serial Number, Grade, Model, Class, etc.)



Rob
 

diveboy

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Rick I do have a grade 75 but it is a Nameless Grade not marked GMW
View attachment 542954

Nameless Grades
"Up until the mid to late 1870s, Elgin used grade names to keep track of the different
types of watches they made and had no concept of grade numbers. Around this time,
Elgin started producing "Nameless" watches, with just the company name on them.
A few years later, Elgin went back and assigned grade
numbers to all grades, including the watches that had previously only had a name.
This is the reason why the very first watch that Elgin produced was a grade 69 instead
of what you might expect to be called grade number 1. The grade 1 is a nameless
grade, and was assigned its number before Elgin went back and assigned numbers
to their named grades."
(from: The Elgin Watch Collectors Site
by Wayne Schlitt elginwatches.org
[ELGIN] Glossary: Serial Number, Grade, Model, Class, etc.)
Rob
This is inaccurate and wrong. Grade 69 or Grade 70 is not Grade BW Raymond, nor is Grade 57 or Grade 63 a Grade GM Wheeler.

In 1926, Elgin introduced the material cabinet. To simplify part look up, EWNCo grouped grades that shared common parts to a grade number. They didn't go back and renumber existing grades (we as collectors did this.). In 1875 they changed their naming standard for all grades from named grades to numbered grades. Named grades were produced until Run 777 Dexter Street #1,680,001 to #1,682,000.

further reading Missing Grades – Elgin.Watch
 

Rick Hufnagel

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12 size, model 3, grade 347 marked for G.M. Wheeler!

Pwdb says 1911, with 20,000 produced between 1906 and 1917

This is one pretty movement. Nice stripe damaskeen, raised jewel settings, decorated ratchet and crown wheels. It's in a very nice 25yr smooth Philadelphia case with a long pendant. Just a really nice watch.

Have a good day!

IMG_20190830_163419603.jpg IMG_20190830_163457460.jpg IMG_20190830_163311275.jpg IMG_20190830_163245021.jpg
 

musicguy

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Nice Rick I like these! I posted one too in post #16


Rob
 

Rick Hufnagel

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Awesome! Thanks Rob. Yes, you and Jerry T often show such nice 12s and smaller movements, I had decided on a few smaller watches to keep a lookout for, this being one of them!

This watch will most likely be stolen by child#2 anytime he wears his suit, lol. I've already been warned.
 
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Rick Hufnagel

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So I really thought the plates would come out looking better on this one, but it's a solid watch, keeping A+ time and is also my earliest National now. The dial came out looking pretty good after a major battle with the seconds bit, and overall I like it. The case is an awesome 4oz dueber anchor in shield case, the screw marks line up, but I'm not convinced of it's originality.

So this is G.M. Wheeler, # 44453.

IMG_20190915_124141983.jpg IMG_20190915_124028018.jpg
 

Rick Hufnagel

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This is a later G.M. Wheeler grade from a run of 2000. It is an interesting piece because it sports the rounded off barrel bridge, and it's still 11 jewels and 16,200 bph.

Now this was a total rescue, it came bare, with another movement I really wanted and I expected it to sit in the parts bin forever... But it turned out to be in good shape mechanically. From my observations, the dial is correct. The hands were a bent up mess so they were a rescue as well and turned out ok.

All in all I think it does a good job of showing the end of the line for the original G.M. Wheeler.

IMG_20191025_071836559.jpg IMG_20191025_071720454.jpg IMG_20191018_161742763.jpg
 

Kent

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Apparently you don't really need an expensive chronometer if you've got a G.M. Wheeler:

1915_Dec_Elgin_15_Seconds_From_Shanghai.jpg
 

Rick Hufnagel

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I have been looking for this movement for close to two years now. This one is in very nice condition and I'm happy to get my hands on it.

This is 870678, a grade 82 with 13 jewels, expansion balance and plain regulator.
IMG_20201201_164527941.jpg
IMG_20201201_163740644~2.jpg

Look at that lovely equipment under the hood! Yes! It's a model two! It changes to the model three immediately following this run.
IMG_20201201_164551541.jpg

There are 8000 Serial numbers for the model two version of this grade, and you would think finding one would not be very difficult, but it's been a long hunt! Now what about a nameless one?!?!?! Haha

This is also an example of the last model two with less than 15 jewels. Pretty neat. Just an added tidbit.

Have a good day!
 

Jerry Treiman

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I realized that I have a couple of G.M. Wheelers in my Elgin movements box. (Pardon the condition, but these are as I received them, about 50 years ago in a box of movements).

The oldest is keywind #45,742 with a pinned dial. It is listed in the older catalogs as a Wheeler but as a grade 57 in the newer listings.
45742.jpg

My other movement, #2,616,207 (no dial) is listed as a grade 75.
2616207.jpg
 

Rick Hufnagel

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This is a newer addition. Grade 75 marked GM Wheeler. SN 4021072.

15 jewels in settings, Moseley regulator, cut bi-metallic balance... All the makings of a fine everyday watch.

IMG_20201203_165849507.jpg
IMG_20201203_165821767.jpg

I had the coin case. Its been home to a few tenants in its life, but still looks nice.
 

D Magner

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G.M.Wheeler. Slow train, grade 57 from about 1871.
What I would give to be able to go back in time & tour the Elgin factory in 1871. From the delivery of material [rail? - heavy wagons?] to the finished product. And seeing a factory without a parking lot, hard to imagine.
David

1871 Elgin 120 copy.jpg 1871 Elgin 141 copy.jpg 1871 Elgin 166 copy.jpg
 
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