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George Lewis verge, 1756

Lychnobius

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For many years I have been without a complete and functional verge watch. A recent eBay sale has allowed me to fill this gap at, for once, rather less cost than I expected. The watch has nothing distinguished about it, although the 'frill' around the cock-table is an agreeable touch, and it seems to have had a good deal of rough handling; but if not in its original state it almost certainly looks very much as it did over two hundred years ago, and it is still clattering away merrily, gaining at the moderate rate (for a verge) of about fifteen minutes a day.

The vendor read the maker's surname as Servis, but I interpret it as Lewis; Baillie mentions a George Lewis as working before 1772. The serial number 9067 is abnormally high for the 1700s, and this raises the question whether 'George Lewis' could be a dummy name used by a Swiss maker, similar to the well-known instances of 'Simpton', 'Samson' and 'Tarts', all of which are likewise found with very high numbers; but I can see nothing about the watch that looks un-English. The hallmarks are small and poorly struck (unusually, the impressions in the inner case are even worse than those in the outer which I have photographed as best I could), but the date-letter seems to be an upper-case Old English A for 1756. This I think is consistent with the style of the movement (the cock foot is still quite broad), but I feel that the dial (with only a row of dots to mark the minutes) must be twenty to twenty-five years later, and presumably the case-bolt catch was converted at the same time; in 1756 it would have taken the form of a finger projecting through a slot in the dial.

I cannot identify the case-maker's mark SP. Priestley gives no instance of these initials earlier than that of Southern Payne in 1775, and both his registration records show a stop between the letters, whereas here there is none. A later pendant, in the style of about 1800 but with a lamentably shortened stem, has been roughly soldered onto the inner case, with a reinforcing plate attached inside. The outer case, which shows the dim remains of what was once an elegant monogram, has taken an extraordinary battering; it looks for all the world as if someone had tried his utmost to bite his way through it between 12 and 4 o'clock. Why this treatment did not result in the total destruction of the movement is an utter mystery. Another lesser puzzle is the pointer (perhaps a cut-down hand) mounted on the regulator disc and secured by a brass pin through the setting-square. As this pointer revolves with the disc, it seems to serve no purpose. The three small screws in the slide-plate must be nineteenth-century replacements, I think.

Clearly a watch with a past! Perhaps I should sit up with it by candle-light next Hallowe'en and see if it will put on a performance, like the dolls' house in M. R. James's story.

Oliver Mundy.

lewis_verge_01.jpg lewis_verge_02.jpg lewis_verge_03.jpg lewis_verge_04.jpg lewis_verge_05.jpg lewis_verge_05a.jpg lewis_verge_06.jpg lewis_verge_07.jpg lewis_verge_08.jpg lewis_verge_09.jpg
 

gmorse

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Hi Oliver,

This is a tough old watch, it amazes me how verges will keep running after all sorts of punishment. I think the tooth marks were made by a dog, or possibly a very large, teething baby!

I believe you're right about the signature, that archaic way of writing a 'w' often seems to confuse.

Regards,

Graham
 

John Matthews

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I cannot identify the case-maker's mark SP. Priestley gives no instance of these initials earlier than that of Southern Payne in 1775, and both his registration records show a stop between the letters, whereas here there is none.
Oliver

Grimwade has not been faithfully referenced by Priestley with respect to Samuel Priest (2613). Grimwade shows a representation of the punch registered on 24 March 1760 without a pellet. Given Priestley references a case prior to the registration date (albeit 1759), I think this is likely to be maker of your case.

John
 
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PatH

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Very interesting design on the cock. Is that some sort of animal at the base by the foot? (sorry if my terminology is off)
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Very interesting design on the cock. Is that some sort of animal at the base by the foot? (sorry if my terminology is off)
Hi Pat, your animal is a serpent, mostly seen in the upper part of the cock, it is not often seen like this one. I like Oliver's watch and was surprised he did not mention the Lace- Edge around the edge of his balance cock. These are only found around the years 1760 for a small number of years according to Cedric Jagger-see page 147 in his book "The Artistry of the English Watch" It is always nice to see this Lace-edge in full, many of them are broken.

Best wishes,

Allan.
 

PatH

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Thanks, Allan. This is definitely an interesting watch with a beautiful design on the movement.

Perhaps it's serpent teeth marks on the case??;)
 

Lychnobius

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Allan has given me the correct name for the ornamentation around the cock-table; I did mention it, but for want of a better term I described it as a 'frill'. I remember seeing this discussed here some years ago as a short-lived fashion of around 1760. I read the motif on the cock as a dragon's head.

Thanks to John for identifying the case-maker and to Graham for his suggestions regarding the dents in the outer case. I remember that babies used to be given objects to gnaw on while they were teething; a piece of coral was the most common choice, but I can imagine a distracted mother seizing on the case of Papa's second-best watch (discarded because it was too small and thick for the fashions of about 1800) as a substitute. But could a baby bite like that? (I should not like to try it myself.) Perhaps the dog is a more likely culprit after all.

Oliver Mundy.
 

gmorse

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Hi Oliver,

Knowing the power in the jaws of even a small dog, I think that's the most likely explanation, the baby was just a frivolous comment on my part!

Regards,

Graham
 

Lychnobius

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I woke up this morning at half-past one with a stomach-ache, found that the watch had stopped and would not run for more than a minute, and decided to exorcise the one problem by attending to the other.

On removing the dial to check whether the motion-wheels were binding, I found a curious state of affairs. The dial was not attached to the brass-edge at all! The copper pillars on the back of the dial, which do not line up with the holes in the brass-edge, had been filed down flat, so that there was nothing except the hands to keep the dial from falling off. In other words, the dial was not made for the movement but merely happened to be the right size. Evidently there were bodgers even in good King George's glorious days.* Then came another revelation, under the cock: the balance-wheel with its wide flat rim clearly belongs to the early nineteenth century, as does the five-turn hairspring. Evidently the disaster which overtook the case did not spare the movement after all; the dial and the whole balance assembly must have been replaced, presumably at the same time as the pendant.

The front plate shows a lot of tinkering around the pivot-holes for the fusee and the barrel. Why these slow-turning components with their relatively robust arbors should have given occasion for such work is more than I can guess.

At ten to five I fed my cat and went back to bed; I had lost two taper-pins (why do I always squirt them out of the jaws of the pliers and into oblivion?) as well as a lot of sleep, but I left the watch reassembled and running. It is running now, three and a half hours later; what is more, it has not gained or lost detectably in that time. I do not know for sure whether I have eliminated the fault, but my guess is that there may be some slight distortion in the stop-work which allows the chain to rub against the stop-arm and act as a brake when the watch is fully wound. When I removed the cock I lifted the balance clear and allowed the train to run for some seconds in order to ensure that everything was moving freely, and this may have let the chain clear itself from the stop-arm. I shall find out when I wind the watch again tonight.

Oliver Mundy.

*Of course it is possible that these repairs, good and bad, were done twenty years ago rather than two hundred or more; there is no way of telling. However, I do feel it is unlikely that even the most brutish of modern tinkerers would have sunk to spoiling an almost pristine eighteenth-century dial by cutting away the pillars instead of drilling new holes in the brass-edge to align with them.

lewis_verge_10.jpg lewis_verge_11.jpg lewis_verge_12.jpg
 

Allan C. Purcell

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That, Oliver, is a sad story-loosing all that sleep, but dials on watches can be replaced with original dials of the period. I have one here identical to yours, though it still has its 3 pillars. The diameter is 38 mm. If it is the right size you can have it. I notice on these enlarged photographs there is a minute chip by eight, it´s so small it´s hard to see with the naked eye. :oops:

Best wishes,

Allan.

000-99.JPG 000-100.JPG 000-101.JPG
 

gmorse

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Hi Oliver,
*Of course it is possible that these repairs, good and bad, were done twenty years ago rather than two hundred or more; there is no way of telling. However, I do feel it is unlikely that even the most brutish of modern tinkerers would have sunk to spoiling an almost pristine eighteenth-century dial by cutting away the pillars instead of drilling new holes in the brass-edge to align with them.
I'm afraid that the great tradition of bodging lives on with undimmed vigour, and there's no limit to the ingenuity of these tinkerers, now or in the past. You might expect a modern exponent to have used self-adhesive 'dial dots' in an attempt to secure the dial, but I think you should be thankful that a hot glue gun wasn't used!

The poor bushing on the fusee isn't unusual, bushing this is often needed because of the high pressures on these points, even though they're slow moving. I don't know why the barrel needed attention though, since that pivot doesn't move in the plates at all once set up.

Regards,

Graham
 
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LloydB

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I woke up this morning at half-past one with a stomach-ache, found that
the watch had stopped and would not run for more than a minute, and
decided to exorcise the one problem by attending to the other.

On removing the dial to check whether the motion-wheels were binding,
I found a curious state of affairs. The dial was not attached to the brass-edge
at all! The copper pillars on the back of the dial, which do not line up with
the holes in the brass-edge, had been filed down flat, so that there was nothing
except the hands to keep the dial from falling off. In other words, the dial
was not made for the movement but merely happened to be the right size.
Evidently there were bodgers even in good King George's glorious days.*
Then came another revelation, under the cock: the balance-wheel with its
wide flat rim clearly belongs to the early nineteenth century, as does the
five-turn hairspring. Evidently the disaster which overtook the case did not
spare the movement after all; the dial and the whole balance assembly must
have been replaced, presumably at the same time as the pendant.

The front plate shows a lot of tinkering around the pivot-holes for the fusee and
the barrel. Why these slow-turning components with their relatively robust arbors
should have given occasion for such work is more than I can guess.

At ten to five I fed my cat and went back to bed; [snipped] Oliver Mundy.

View attachment 704362
Cheers, Oliver. Your venerable 'disaster'
has, it seems, preserved its horological
soul.

AND...Your informative and entertaining
description added a slightly horrified
smile to my day. :emoji_open_mouth:
 

Allan C. Purcell

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ANONYMOUS.

THE WATCH SPEAKS.


I hope to serve you, Master, Friend,
Till Death our partnership doth end.
I do not ask pounds, shillings, Pence,
Indeed, I trust the whole expense
You need incur for me, a mere
Light overhaul, not once a year.
And then, perhaps a drop of oil
To help me in my daily toil.
One boon, I beg, you will not drop Me on the floor, or I will stop,
Just wind me at the usual Time,
Say, when you hear the hall clock chime His Martin song at eight or nine,
As I would do, if you were mine:
"Tis better if I´m fully wound
Before you start your daily round
The owner I would really hate
Is he who loves to demonstrate-
From sheer proprietory pride-
To all and sundry, my inside;
For dust and fluff are very bad;
So keep me closed, and you´ll be glad
That you have done as I direct.
For then my time should stay correct.
But if perchance I should fall ill,
If you´d avoid a heavy bill,
Don´t think to do the job with ease,
Consult an expert, if you please,
Repairers are not ready-made,
Theirs is a very skilful trade.
And if you try to mend me, you
Will certainly have cause to rue
With tears of penitential woe,
The day you tried to make me go.
But treat me well, and then you´ll find
I´ll help you with your daily grind.
And that you never need be late
(A lapse employers deprecate),
And you will find you can depend
On me, your faithful. truthful friend.

Hi Lloyd, how are things down your way?

Allan.
 
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SKennedy

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The brass edge appears to already have two sets of dial holes so this could be at least the third dial that's been on there!
In the photo below I suggest the three holes in aorund the 11, 3 and 7 o clock positions are original. Then those at 1:30 (oval), 5 and 9 (oval and recessed as the dial pin would have ended up over the min wheel) are later additions for a replacement.

 

John Matthews

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The brass edge appears to already have two sets of dial holes so this could be at least the third dial that's been on there!
In the photo below I suggest the three holes in aorund the 11, 3 and 7 o clock positions are original. Then those at 1:30 (oval), 5 and 9 (oval and recessed as the dial pin would have ended up over the min wheel) are later additions for a replacement.
Seth you are assuming that the brass edge was the original.

John
 

John Matthews

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I agree, on balance, it may be original The material removed offset from the slot in the edge, as shown below, raised a doubt in my mind. I haven't handled sufficient examples to know whether, at the time, what the chances of finding a replacement brass-edge that had the same pillar positions was likely to be. I am just cautious in making assumptions.

1649591974323.png

John
 

Lychnobius

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I can at least account for the slot which John has mentioned: it was cut to accommodate the new horizontal case-bolt catch. This is made of brass rather than the usual steel; it can be seen on the right-hand edge of my image of the front plate. Evidently the old upright finger was cut off the tip of the spring and this catch was soldered on in its place. Seth makes a fair point about the redundant holes in the brass-edge. I do think, however, that this is indeed original to the watch, since the colour of the gilding exactly matches that of the rest of the movement and the pillars show no sign of having been moved or modified.

Allan, thank you for your kind offer regarding your dial (though this is fractionally too large for the watch) and for the delightful poem, which I have not met with before. My restless night was not misspent, since (perhaps coincidentally) the watch has been running exceptionally well ever since; there was no recurrence of the initial problem following last night's winding, the watch is running very strongly for a verge (the arc of the balance is consistently about 110°) and it has gained no more than two minutes in 21 hours.

Incidentally, I notice that the author of the poem recommends winding in the morning. I must confess I have never thought of this. For decades I have done all my winding (currently twelve watches or movements and one chronometer, plus three clocks on Sundays) at half-past nine in the evening, just before going to bed. Even in retirement I feel altogether too harassed in the morning for such a task.

Oliver Mundy.
 

Allan C. Purcell

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Oliver, you do make life hard, I gave that up years ago, in the living room there is my Thomas Morgan (Edinburgh) longcase, which tells me the time within a few seconds a day, I wind it on Sundays if I remember. The other fifteen I sometimes wind up when I know who is coming to dinner, I do not do that for the family, they like the quiet, they once remarked about my wrist watch ticking, at the time I had on my Hunt & Roskell gold marriage
May in 1856. That was quite a while ago, so when they come, I now use my Seiko quartz. Five of the seven that do come now and then, do not like dogs, so we don´t see them too often. Oliver, there is a little book going around on the net called An "Anthology of Clocks and Watches " published in 1947 by C. A. O. Fox. It goes for a few pounds now and then, my copy came from the RSPCA North Somerset with its jacket. You will love it.
IMG_6845 (1).JPG This is Niel, he loves people, when the sister-in-law comes he is the first there, sticks his cold nose up her skirt. it is not so much the nose she knows he slobbers, her husband stands behind her, shouting can you not put the dog outside. I just look at him,
the niece cools them both down, by saying go and sit by the widow Neil cannot reach you there. My fault of course they do say always look at the mother first, I never got the chance, she was long gone. Anyway Oliver this must be boring, just remember if your watch had arrived looking new, it would be in the bank now and forgotten.

Best wishes,

Allan.
 

Lychnobius

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This has proved to be a rather extraordinary verge. It is never out by more than four and a half minutes in a day. After winding I set it, if necessary, by my chronometer. In the next eight hours it gains about four minutes; it then stays at that level for a further twelve or thirteen hours, and in the remaining three or four it reverses the original gain of four minutes, so that at the end of the 24 hours it is more or less back in line with the chronometer; at most it may be fast by a single minute. Moreover, it has held to this pattern quite consistently ever since my last posting, so that by applying a simple mental adjustment to its reading I can always extrapolate the correct time within a minute or so. During that period I may have reset the hands three times, and I have not had to touch the regulator at all. This morning, as the ultimate test, I dropped it into a trouser pocket (most of my watches stop almost at once if I put them there); it is still going as I write and indicates 3.44 p.m. by the dial (actual time 3.40), just as it would have done if I had left it lying on its usual table.

Obviously the profile of the fusee and the power-curve of the mainspring are not quite a perfect match; but am I going to complain of a little eccentricity after 266 years? Besides, the mainspring may not be original. I wonder how an eighteenth-century assembler of movements would have ascertained the compatibility of these parts? I presume there was no means of bench-testing them in those days. Was it done by eye, or by instinct, or were there any mathematical formulae to act as a guide?

Oliver Mundy.
 

gmorse

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Hi Oliver,
I wonder how an eighteenth-century assembler of movements would have ascertained the compatibility of these parts? I presume there was no means of bench-testing them in those days. Was it done by eye, or by instinct, or were there any mathematical formulae to act as a guide?
Regarding the setting up of the fusee, the amount of 'pre-wind' applied will affect the shape of the power curve, and this would have been established with a fusee rod, a steel rod with one or more movable weights which was clamped on to the fusee square to measure the torque produced at various states of wind.

Fusee Adjusting Rod.JPG

Regards,

Graham
 

Dr. Jon

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DeCarle's book Practical Watch Repairing has a long explanation of hhow ot use this.
 
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