• Upcoming updates
    Over the next couple of weeks we will be performing software updates on the forum. These will be completed in small steps as we upgrade individual software addons. You might occasionally see a maintenance message that will last a few minutes at most.

    If we anticipate an update will take more than a few minutes, we'll put up a notice with estimated time.

    Thank you!

G.E Demeza, 95 Strand, London

Chris Radek

NAWCC Member
Apr 13, 2014
1,248
709
113
Lincoln, NE, USA
timeguy.com
Country
Dear friends, I have a very nicely made and well preserved verge with second hand and hack. I can find no sign that the movement and case haven't always been together, but I'm still unsure I've read the date correctly. Can you please have a look and tell me what you think about the origins and date? I have included all the marks from the cap and pendant, a look at the hack, pillars and barrel hook, and whatever else I could. I'm happy to take more of any feature. Thank you!

IMG_20201230_212832.jpg IMG_20201230_213329.jpg IMG_20201230_213205.jpg IMG_20201230_213052.jpg IMG_20201230_213019.jpg IMG_20201230_212954.jpg IMG_20201230_212929.jpg IMG_20201230_212902.jpg bezel.jpg cap.jpg pendant2.jpg pendant1.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: viclip

John Matthews

NAWCC Member
Sep 22, 2015
4,235
2,341
113
France
Country
Region
I can confirm 1817/18 as identified by Les.

The case maker is {WR incuse} is that of William Rowlands, 13 Harper Street, who registered this mark 10/06/1817 at the London assay office. The pendant maker's mark is that of Joseph Field, pendant maker, of 9 St James's Street, Clerkenwell, who registered the mark {J·F in a rectangular cartouche with cut corners} on 6/06/1807, but by January 1810, he had moved to 7 Red Lion Square, also in Clerkenwell.

The cap maker's mark {RE in a rectangular cameo} is one that is commonly found on cap associated with quality London finished movements, signed by the like of BARWISE, John CROSS, DWERRIHOUSE, FRENCH and PENNINGTON. I believe the mark to be that of Robert Edwards, who appears to have been active from the date of your watch, until at least the middle of the 1820's.

I am not familiar with the signature on the movement. In 1818, that address is identified in an 1818 directory so ...

1609397427859.png

However, George Demez, is listed in Loomes as being based in London between 1825 & 1828. He is not listed in trade directories of 1822/23, but he is listed at that address, in Pigots 1825 directory under watch and clock makers.

1609397890659.png

I think the history, of this well finished and cased London watch, is worthy of further research. A good find.

John
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris Radek

gmorse

NAWCC Member
Jan 7, 2011
14,854
3,941
113
Breamore, Hampshire, UK
Country
Region
Hi Chris,

Yes, a good find indeed, with a dial bearing only the faintest of hairlines and what are very probably the original gold hour and minute hands. I'm not so sure about the seconds hand, but it's a pretty good match, and they were always the more vulnerable, placed as they were right next to the case bolt.

The case is rather unusual, with the very narrow band and the bold milling decoration extending over the bezel and back; an ornamentation typical of the Regency period but not often seen applied like this.

Regards,

Graham
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chris Radek

Chris Radek

NAWCC Member
Apr 13, 2014
1,248
709
113
Lincoln, NE, USA
timeguy.com
Country
Wow, thank you all, for your research and response. That is also how I read the year, but I was uneasy because the case and movement both feel later than that. It's a very "modern"/late looking verge to me, and I was having trouble convincing myself that it made sense all together. I appreciate you all!

A friend mentioned upon hearing the date that this watch was probably worn to some of Beethoven's premieres in London. I will wear it today and bring in the new year. It reliably keeps time within a minute or two a day, either sitting or worn.

Cheers,
Chris
 
Last edited:

Benjamin E.

NAWCC Member
Sep 7, 2015
81
29
18
Country
I believe that's a consular case, wherein there's no visible band, the bezel and case back meeting in the middle. Early pocket chronometers used this style of case frequently. Very cool to see. EDIT: there is a band and I wasn't wearing my glasses. Still a very cool case.
Can you please post a picture of the back?
 

Forum statistics

Threads
179,118
Messages
1,571,184
Members
54,072
Latest member
Anthracite
Encyclopedia Pages
909
Total wiki contributions
3,088
Last edit
Swiss Fake by Kent