Fusée Wall Clock

[timbo19]

I have my Great Grandfather's kitchen clock (Denham, London) which has been working well for the last 30 years or more, but it has now suddenly stopped. It is an 8 day clock with a fusée mechanism. It looks pretty dirty. I have never taken a fusée mechanism to pieces and am not sure how complicated it is.. Is there way I could quickly clean it without dismantling it or must I bite the bullet? It has obviously been repaired in the past and re-bushed. Any thoughts before I start would be appreciated. Many thanks

 

[bruce linde]

bullet.

optimally, they want to be serviced every 5-10 years... oil dries up, dust, etc.... and it's been thirty.

if you're comfortable working with mainsprings, go for it... even though fusees have somewhat bigger/scarier ones. if it were mine, i would get rid of the braided steel cable and use this stuff:

High Quality 1.40mm Synthetic Gut line for Fusee and Bracket, 5ft (1.52mtrs) long

High Quality 1.40mm Synthetic Gut line for Fusee and Bracket, 5ft (1.52mtrs) long The synthetic gut line is soft and pliable, and similar in colour

www.johnwardle.co.uk

very nice clock, btw

 

[Simon Holt]

I changed mine from cable to gut, and no regrets. Just make sure you get the right diameter though.

Simon

 

[timbo19]

I changed mine from cable to gut, and no regrets. Just make sure you get the right diameter though.

Simon

Hi Bruce & Simon - I am about to start cleaning this fusée clock but have read that old brass clocks can be damaged by using ultrasonic cleaners. What would you recommend? I usually use Horolene 1 part to 7 of water. I am ordering some gut for the fusée. Thanks
Timbo

 

[Uhralt]

The let-down of the main spring is different for a fusee movement due to the very strong spring and the pre-tension of it. First, remove the anchor and let the clock run down by itself. Limit the speed by putting a light touch of your finger to the escape wheel. Once the clock has stopped you can release the pre-tension by attaching a big enough key to the mainspring arbor and releasing the click. Memorize how much pre-tension the spring had when you release it. Usually, it is 1/2 to 1 turn.

Uhralt

 

[timbo19]

The let-down of the main spring is different for a fusee movement due to the very strong spring and the pre-tension of it. First, remove the anchor and let the clock run down by itself. Limit the speed by putting a light touch of your finger to the escape wheel. Once the clock has stopped you can release the pre-tension by attaching a big enough key to the mainspring arbor and releasing the click. Memorize how much pre-tension the spring had when you release it. Usually, it is 1/2 to 1 turn.

Uhralt

Thanks Uhralt - I have let the main spring down successfully. Would you use an ultrasonic cleaner with horolene on a clock like this - very solid brass?
Timbo

 

[Bernhard J.]

Hi Timbo,

Just this weekend I serviced a movement of very similar kind. I use cleaning petrol, a brush, and soft wood picks, the latter for cleaning of holes. The surfaces stay nice without any change, see my "Watts" thread. Although I have a large ultrasonic, I would not use it, because the solvents used therein typically are aequeous and often basic (pH above 7, for removing oil and grease). Cleaning petrol, as an organic wthout functional groups, is inert to metal surfaces. The only risk were, if the brass plates have a zapon coating (unlikely).

Do not forget to take the fusee apart after having removed it. Depending on the mechanical design, this can be more or less challenging, but be sure that nobody looked in there for decades. And check that the ratchet, click and click spring are well.

Cheers, Bernhard

 

[Jim DuBois]

The mainspring will need to be removed from the barrel and properly inspected and cleaned. Many of these clocks have not had the mainspring cleaned in a very long time, as removing it, cleaning it, and reinstalling it takes time and a bit of care. And a proper mainspring tool is highly desirable too. I have had more than a few that were bright green inside when opened up and stunk to high heaven due to rancid natural lubricants.

 

[timbo19]

Hi Timbo,

Just this weekend I serviced a movement of very similar kind. I use cleaning petrol, a brush, and soft wood picks, the latter for cleaning of holes. The surfaces stay nice without any change, see my "Watts" thread. Although I have a large ultrasonic, I would not use it, because the solvents used therein typically are aequeous and often basic (pH above 7, for removing oil and grease). Cleaning petrol, as an organic wthout functional groups, is inert to metal surfaces. The only risk were, if the brass plates have a zapon coating (unlikely).

Do not forget to take the fusee apart after having removed it. Depending on the mechanical design, this can be more or less challenging, but be sure that nobody looked in there for decades. And check that the ratchet, click and click spring are well.

Cheers, Bernhard

Thanks Bernard for your advice. I am intrigued that the fusée come apart - while it is assembled in the clock it looks very solid. I will certainly check the ratchet etc.
Cheers
Timbo

 

[timbo19]

The mainspring will need to be removed from the barrel and properly inspected and cleaned. Many of these clocks have not had the mainspring cleaned in a very long time, as removing it, cleaning it, and reinstalling it takes time and a bit of care. And a proper mainspring tool is highly desirable too. I have had more than a few that were bright green inside when opened up and stunk to high heaven due to rancid natural lubricants.

Hi Jim - thanks for your thoughts - I have renewed several mainsprings with a winder that I made but mus admit they were not as big as this one and several other contributors have said how strong they are - I shall have to be very, very careful. I keep looking for a s/h winder but they seem to be quite rare - once acquired kept forever I suspect
Timbo

 

[Simon Holt]

Thanks Bernard for your advice. I am intrigued that the fusée come apart - while it is assembled in the clock it looks very solid. I will certainly check the ratchet etc.
Cheers
Timbo

There a plate at the base of the fusee cone. One screw and it comes off to expose the ratchet.

Simon

 

[timbo19]

There a plate at the base of the fusee cone. One screw and it comes off to expose the ratchet.

Simon

Thanks Simon - when I took it all to pieces, I immediately saw the little screw. Now to buy the new gut - Bruce recommended the synthetic type.
Timbo

 

[Simon Holt]

Thanks Simon - when I took it all to pieces, I immediately saw the little screw. Now to buy the new gut - Bruce recommended the synthetic type.
Timbo

Cousins have gut in various diameters - if you match the diameter of the braided steel cable you will be fine. If you use too large a diameter it will chafe on the channel edges and potentially fail.

Does the spring barrel have three holes? Mine had only one, but three is better it seems.

Simon

 

[Jim DuBois]

Usually, when there is only one hole in the barrel, it was originally a chain drive. When there are 3 holes, it was intended for gut, loopback the gut and tie it off, and all that.

 

[timbo19]

Cousins have gut in various diameters - if you match the diameter of the braided steel cable you will be fine. If you use too large a diameter it will chafe on the channel edges and potentially fail.

Does the spring barrel have three holes? Mine had only one, but three is better it seems.

Simon

My current steel cord is 1.22mm so I will go for the Cousins 1.2mm. The barrel has 3 holes so I can tie the gut off. What chain lubricant do you use? - there is so much advice but I only need a little for my clock work.
I will write later re the Smith's clock on the other thread.
Timbo

 

[timbo19]

I have tried to remove the spring using my homemade mainspring winder but unfortunately the spring is too strong for my design and the let-down arbor slips in the mechanical chuck. I would like to buy a proper mainspring winder - does anyone know of where one can buy second-hand winders - I have searched the web but they seem to be rarely sold.
Timbo

 

[Jim DuBois]

It is pretty easy to grip the barrel in the chuck of a lathe, grasp the arbor in the tailstock chuck, wind the barrel until the outside tail of the spring can be grasped with needle nose pliers, carefully unhook the spring from the barrel, back out the arbor end with the tailstock, and pull the spring out into your gloved hand using a heavy cloth to contain the spring as it unwinds. It only takes three hands and a short chant or two or prayer to a deity of your choice. I have done it this way more than once, and it reads far worse here than actually doing it. And a spring winder is still preferred, but when you don't have one, this works.

 

[Simon Holt]

My current steel cord is 1.22mm so I will go for the Cousins 1.2mm. The barrel has 3 holes so I can tie the gut off. What chain lubricant do you use? - there is so much advice but I only need a little for my clock work.
I will write later re the Smith's clock on the other thread.
Timbo

I'm a little confused regarding your question about chain lubricant. What chain?

Regarding removing the spring: I'd happily do it for you, clean it, grease it, and reinstall it for the price of postage. Post-Brexit, I don't know what the costs would be though, to and from the UK. Cheaper than the cost of a spring winder though!

Simon

 

[wow]

There is an Ollie Baker on eBay. It will handle those springs.

 

[timbo19]

I'm a little confused regarding your question about chain lubricant. What chain?

Regarding removing the spring: I'd happily do it for you, clean it, grease it, and reinstall it for the price of postage. Post-Brexit, I don't know what the costs would be though, to and from the UK. Cheaper than the cost of a spring winder though!

Simon

Thanks Simon - a very kind offer - I will look at the postage costs etc. The chain is bigger than any I have dealt with so far and very strong and I am probably a little too cautious so I wear my chainsaw hard hat and mask when dealing it as I now only have one good eye A slip up I think, I meant spring not chain!! I have take the arbor out and cleaned that and as much of the barrel as I can - I am sure the spring would benefit from a clean and lubrication but it doesn't look too bad. I might see if the clock will work when I receive the new gut which will hopefully arrive in the next day or two.

 

[timbo19]

It is pretty easy to grip the barrel in the chuck of a lathe, grasp the arbor in the tailstock chuck, wind the barrel until the outside tail of the spring can be grasped with needle nose pliers, carefully unhook the spring from the barrel, back out the arbor end with the tailstock, and pull the spring out into your gloved hand using a heavy cloth to contain the spring as it unwinds. It only takes three hands and a short chant or two or prayer to a deity of your choice. I have done it this way more than once, and it reads far worse here than actually doing it. And a spring winder is still preferred, but when you don't have one, this works.

Thanks Jim - I chant quite a lot when working with springs! I don't have a lathe but my chuck should have been strong enough -I will try and tighten it some more and try again.
Timbo

 

[timbo19]

Thanks Simon - a very kind offer - I will look at the postage costs etc. The chain is bigger than any I have dealt with so far and very strong and I am probably a little too cautious so I wear my chainsaw hard hat and mask when dealing it as I now only have one good eye A slip up I think, I meant spring not chain!! I have take the arbor out and cleaned that and as much of the barrel as I can - I am sure the spring would benefit from a clean and lubrication but it doesn't look too bad. I might see if the clock will work when I receive the new gut which will hopefully arrive in the next day or two.

Simon - re your very kind offer, I have a friend coming to the UK next week and he can post the barrel to you from there. If you can let me have your address, I can arrange for recorded delivery to you if that would be convenient. My email is tsgiles72@gmail.com.
Timbo

 

[Simon Holt]

Hi Timbo

I've sent you my address via email.

Don't forget to include the arbor!

Simon

 

[timbo19]

Update
Simon very kindly cleaned and greased the main spring and reported that it was in good shape. I cleaned the clock but not using US as some of the wheels have very small hairline cracks and I didn't want to cause any further problems. I replaced the fusee metal cord with a new gut line. I re-assembled the clock and set it going and it kept perfect time until I had to rewind it after about 8 days. It then kept stopping after a few minutes.
I adjusted the pre-tension both more and less - 1.5 turns down to 0.5 turns but this made no difference.
I have taken the crutch and escape wheel off as well as the fusee and spring and spun the wheels to check if they stop at any particular point but I cannot see any pattern.
However I do notice that the hour wheel has considerable movement along the main minute pinion and the hour hand is attached with 2 small screws which when the hour wheel moves forward rub against the minute hand which is held in place with a collar and tapered pin. I am wondering if this could be causing the problem and if so, how to solve it. Also, there is what I believe is called a friction spring behind the first wheel on the minute pinion - this is quite rough and scrapes on the front face of the front panel. Is there something wrong here?
I attach some photos that I hope are clear to illustrate what I have outlined above and any advice would be greatly appreciated -
many thanks
Timbo

 

[bruce linde]

the tension washer is hitting the front plate... and it shouldn't. it should be riding on a shoulder if the arbor that keeps it from doing just that. the holes in these tension washers can get worn. the hole needs to be made smaller (peening) or tension washer replaced.

 

[timbo19]

the tension washer is hitting the front plate... and it shouldn't. it should be riding on a shoulder if the arbor that keeps it from doing just that. the holes in these tension washers can get worn. the hole needs to be made smaller (peening) or tension washer replaced.

Thanks -I'll take a look at the diameter of the hole and the size of the arbor shoulder and see if I can get a new one - this one maybe beyond repair

 

[Willie X]

You can make a tight fitting square holed washer here but it not much harder to make the whole piece.

Fixing this fault will make your clock run so much better and this is probably the prime cause of the stoppage. Glad you did the take apart service though.

Happy New Year, Willie X

 

[timbo19]

You can make a tight fitting square holed washer here but it not much harder to make the whole piece.

Fixing this fault will make your clock run so much better and this is probably the prime cause of the stoppage. Glad you did the take apart service though.

Happy New Year, Willie X

Thanks Willie - I will try to make a piece from an old mainspring although the current one looks like brass or brass coated.
Happy New Year to you too Timbo

 

[timbo19]

Thanks Willie - I will try to make a piece from an old mainspring although the current one looks like brass or brass coated.
Happy New Year to you too Timbo

I am wondering how important the size is? The tension spring on long case clocks are a little larger and always as far as I can see made of brass or have a brass coating - I can use a part of an old brass hinge to make one but not sure if I can make it to the exact size - my engineering skills are limited but if it could be a little larger then that would be easier. Thanks

 

[wisty]

Size shouldn't matter as long as it doesn't bind on anything and is clear of the teeth. Remember the spring normally rotates with the arbour and minute wheel. It only slips against the arbour shoulder or wheel when you move the minute hand to set the time.

 

[timbo19]

With some advice from Simon I may have found a solution. I found a thin brass washer that would sit on the shoulder of the arbour but the first washer was too thick - I found a thinner washer and slightly increased the diameter of the centre hole so that it fitted snuggly on the arbour and rested on the shoulder. With a small drop of oil and reassembly the clock has been working well on the bench for nearly a week now. I will leave it there and rewind when it stops and hopefully it will continue - thanks very much for all your advice etc - much appreciated - Timbo

 

[timbo19]

Hello All - my Fuse is now back in its place on the wall - after working well for over a week on my test bench I put it back in its case and back on the wall where it has continued to run well and keep good time. Many, many thanks to everyone who helped with advice etc to get it working again. I have learned a lot of useful knowledge about this clock in the process of repairing it - now on to the next one! Thanks again - amazing assistance from Forum members.