full size images with thumbnails ??

Discussion in 'Message Board Help & Notices' started by Jerry Treiman, Jan 13, 2017.

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  1. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    The message board seems to be including full-size images now along with the thumbnails, at least when using the simple insert-image tool. Is this an error or was it an intentional change? I was able to simplify a recent post I made by editing to remove the full-size image; that left just the thumbnails.

    Although not a problem for faster connections, the full-size images may slow down the page loading for some and affect data usage on portable devices.
     
  2. Bill Stuntz

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    #2 Bill Stuntz, Jan 13, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2017
    I'm not aware of anything that's changed recently. Can you point me to an example?

    Edit: OK, I've done some testing, and I see what you mean. I don't know how/why it's happening, but I'm looking into it. I find it interesting that I see the thumbnail size inline images in the editor as the post is created, but after submitting it, it shows up full size. And I can't control the size by double clicking the inline image like I could before.
     
  3. Tom McIntyre

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    The way it is supposed to work is that a click on the thumbnail opens the gallery view where a click on the gallery image will open the original image.

    In most browsers, the original image will also be scaled to the screen size but it can be clicked to display at full resolution with scroll bars.

    If it has changed, something has gone awry with the software. It is possible that the changes to improve security that Kevin has been discussing could be responsible, but it was my understanding that nothing would be done before next week.
     
  4. Markus Harris

    Markus Harris NAWCC Communications Director
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    Nothing has been done on this end to reset the external firewall; so it can't be that.

    This seems to be a software problem, possibly having to do with the image handling plugin. I believe Kevin may have updated the version of PHP on the MB last week; the updated version may have disagreed with the image handling code.

    Markus
     
  5. novicetimekeeper

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    it does appear to have removed the opportunity to enlarge the pic.
     
  6. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    So what is going on with this? When I clicked on the following thread it took forever to load because two of the photos were large in the posts and they also included a thumbnail.

    http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?139629-Anyone-have-info

    Now I did notice that the words Pin It were in the upper right corner of the large photos.

    Isn't change wonderful?
     
  7. THTanner

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    There have also been some updates to various browsers these last few weeks. Claimed to be security updates, some of the recent security issues involved images and their embedded formatting code. It may be that the HTML codes are being processed differently by the browsers after these updates.

     
  8. David S

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    FRom what I can tell this is still and issue. Just posted a pic in the clock repair forum and it came out huge with a thumb nail as well. Sounds like it is still being worked on.

    David
     
  9. Bill Stuntz

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    It IS still being worked on. I think I can safely say that we're no happier about the situation than you are!

    And to top it off, the "slows" are back from Comcast today after being great for a week, so it's a double whammy.
    I've been manually testing the speed every few hours since we started having the "intermittent slows." The full size image problem is relatively new, and seems to be unrelated to the slows.
     
  10. Kent

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    I've noticed this happening lately, but not to my posts, see my post #12 in the thread entitled "ID this PW The National M'F'G' & IMP'T'G Co. Chicago. This may help those working on the problem.

    I use the basic editor and to put up thumbnails, I use the code [url=URL][img]URL&thumb=1[/img][/url]
     
  11. David S

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    Hi Bill, miss you in the repair forum. I think it was you that introduced the "solder sucker" pivot bushing pre-cleaner.

    Hope you are having fun trying to fix all this IT stuff.

    David
     
  12. THTanner

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    There are also differences in the way the pages load on different platforms. I am in no way suggesting that they should all work exactly the same - that is a real nightmare to achieve - just documenting that the pages work differently on Linux (Ubuntu) and Win 10 and also on different browsers such as Chrome, Firefox, Safari (iPad 2) and Windows' own. I tested four different combinations today and found that the large images with thumbnails appear on all the platforms, but some other features do not. I don't consider this a problem, but different users may experience different results depending on their OS, ad ons and versions.


     
  13. David S

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    Ok well I am still running XP...yes that is right, no support I know all the stuff, but that is what all my applications are compatible with.

    I am using Chrome.. and yes it keeps telling me to get upgraded to hmmm let me think 98, or is it ME,,, oh I think WIN10 he he .

    David
     
  14. Dick C

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    Hopefully, someone is still working on addressing this issue. Take a look at my latest test. I downloaded the picture and lo and behold both images are posted.

    http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?139728-Test-My-pin-it-question-what-does-it-really-do-with-my-images

    When I signed up for this message board I understood that the images that I posted would stored by the NAWCC as part of this board.

    I did not understand that the NAWCC would also make them available to a 3rd party, PINTEREST.COM, through the "Pin It" function.

    Thus, my only alternative, which I will now use, is to stop loading any further photos which someone can pick up and use commercially.

    Is someone really going to change this function or is this going to be permanent?
     
  15. THTanner

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    Having worked on similar issues when I ran a website I can sympathize whole heartedly with the IT team. This stuff has gotten so complicated and gets changed so often by parts of the puzzle that are beyond the control of the IT staff that it is a total nightmare. It will take some time and they need all the support we can give them without getting in their way.

    Let us know what we might do to help. I tested the older method of uploading pictures from my PC as well as the Select button and got the same results either way.

     
  16. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    I also spent years dealing with software.

    Shouldn't we be concerned that anyone registered on this board can Pin your or my images to Pinterest where the information can be sold to firms for marketing purposes and also potentially used by Spammers?

    Social networking, be dam.ed, the changes made to this message board without understanding the consequences should be considered.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pinterest

    Now, if I am totally misunderstanding this, my apologies.
     
  17. THTanner

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    Absolutely a major concern. Also I have seen pictures on the board that are clearly not original to the owners. This is usually not a problem but does have the potential of copyright issues.

    I don't know of any way to prevent people from copying pictures from a bulletin board like this. Once copied to their PC they can Pin or print or do whatever they choose. I have tested four different ways now to grab a picture off this board and save it. This includes a right click and copy; a PRINT to a file instead of a printer; a screen capture program with cropping capability; and simply taking a photo of the screen using my iPhone. The webpage folks cannot stop all of that no matter what they try.

     
  18. Markus Harris

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    Pinterest is a social media site similar to Facebook, Tumblr, Twitter, and Instagram.

    Pinterest's primary purpose is to provide users with a virtual "pin board" that contains all of the "pins" (links) to images found by the user on the web, collecting them into a single viewable thumbnail gallery. Pinterest users can look at each other's galleries and click the thumbnails to see the photos fullsize.

    Pinterest is essentially the same as Facebook, except it's almost exclusively pictures (not whole posts or articles) and instead of a "share" button that links/posts the content to a FB newsfeed or profile page, it's a "pin it" button that links/posts the content to a Pinterest page.

    No transfer of authorship or ownership is implied by doing so, same as with Facebook. Image owners retain whatever rights they had when the image was posted at the source site. All Pinterest does is let its users find pics they like and virtually "pin" them to a virtual corkboard.

    Pinterest users can "pin" pictures from here even WITHOUT the "Pin it" option, the same way Facebook users can share material by copying and pasting the URL onto their FB wall.

    I surmise the "Pin it" option was added to this board as part of a suite of social media "helper" plug ins, like the Facebook "share" and "log in" facilities that have been used here at various times. It was installed as a convenience to message board users who also frequent Pinterest, as a way of allowing them to stockpile links to their favorite images from here; nothing more sinister than that.

    From what I can see, the existence of the "Pin it" plug in has absolutely nothing to do with the recent speed difficulties and image upload difficulties occurring on this board. It's just another form of social media content "share" button.

    Regards,

    Markus Harris
     
  19. Tom McIntyre

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    The last major upgrade of the Message Board was three years ago and that was when the social media links, including Pinterest, were installed. As the others have mentioned the tool does not add any function, only convenience for those who want to keep an Internet scrapbook.
     
  20. Dick C

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    "Copyright solely with Richard Crosby reuse prohibited".

    Copyright Information from the NAWCC Message Board:


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    8. Any material protected by copyright (unless you are the owner) may not be posted on this MB without the express permission of the copyright owner. This includes reproducing the full text or substantial part of any written material such as news stories, articles, books, etc. It is acceptable to paraphrase other works; citing the original source whenever possible. It is permissible to mention or link to other websites that are of interest to users of this MB, so long as they do not violate our Forum Rules or the linked website's guidelines.
    9. Site administration of this MB is charged with enforcing this Copyright Notice, using their judgment.

    I have not seen the Pinterest Copyright information; however, this site does not block the images with their meta tag; thus, the only way that I have to legally prohibit the use of my images is to precede each message and photo that I post with the words as seen in Paragraph 7 above. Since others can pin my images without my knowledge do I have to go to Pinterest to have my exclusive images removed?

    Do I have the opt out words in the correct place when I reply with a quote?

    My objective would be to prohibit my photographs from leaving this site. An acceptable alternative would be an option for me to delete my images. I guess that I could start using photobucket or some alternative as a way to solve this problem.

    Or am I missing something?
     
  21. Tom McIntyre

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    Dick, I followed your link to the Wikipedia article and noticed that Pinterest has released a mechanism that would allow users to opt out of their images being posted on Pinterest. I do not know the details and probably do not have the time available to explore this, but perhaps someone else on our team could do so.

    You have copyright to your original work whether or not you say so. That is in the language of the copyright act. In particular images are "whole works" and copying them for alternative use is actionable. You will not likely collect damages unless the usage is commercial. You may also use a watermark on your images either visible or not to protect them. If you use invisible watermarks that are registered with the scanning agent, you can receive reports of the illegal use of your images. I have those tools, but have not had occasion to use them. Presumably with such tools, you can contact the infringing user and demand damages for any commercial use.
     
  22. Markus Harris

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    Tom,

    It is a simple meta tag notice. All that would be required would be for someone to add it to the other meta tags listed in the MB configuration file.

    If it is desired that access from Pinterest be blocked, then the first action I would recommend would be to TURN OFF the Pinterest add on in whatever plug-in is currently adding it to the board here. Someone must have elected to activate it; that same someone can turn it off. I suspect few if any of our users actually use that functionality, since apparently a goodly percentage of our users have no idea what Pinterest even is.



    The paragraph you quoted from our rules here, which allows you to opt out of allowing your images to be used by the NAWCC, is exclusive only to the NAWCC. It has nothing to do with Pinterest, and has absolutely zero effect on whether or not your images are displayed on Pinterest.

    The addition of the "block Pinterest" meta tag to this board only prevents logged in users of Pinterest from actively using their own "pin it" buttons to add material from here. They can still copy the URL of any photo in any public directory connected to the internet and link it to their Pinterest account. The mechanism in place (both mechanical and legal) that allows this is essentially identical to the method used by Google to harvest images for its Google Image Search function.

    I suspect you could directly contact Pinterest with a list of image URLS you wish for them to completely block from their server usage. They probably have an application mechanism that enables you to do so. I suspect they would also require you to contact them about every specific image you want blocked, individually, and to contact them again every time you add a new image. So, it's legally possible to prevent your stuff from ever being linked to there, but I assume they don't make it easy or convenient to do so. Google runs their Google Images facility the same way.

    Pinterest relies on the Safe Harbor internet legal protection and the legality of posting direct links to material from public internet sites, plus the "thumbnails" exception to digital copyright protection in order to allow their users to populate their pages. It's a pretty broad legal defense with precedent behind it.

    ANYONE on the internet can "link" to any image on the public internet, create a "thumbnail" version of it, and use those thumbnails as active links on a web page or site of their own. That's how Pinterest does it, and how most social media sites get around individual copyright to some extent by hosting "links" instead of harvesting the actual files. Pinterest MAY also create an alternate "mirror" of the harvested images on their own servers under the "cache" exception ("temporary copies" hosted "for uninterrupted service" purposes). I'm not certain of the particulars.

    So, there's that.
     
  23. Dick C

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    Markus,

    Thank you for your response.

    Have you identified who the "someone" is? I don't care to see a name; only wonder whether it is/was possible for someone to hack the MB Configuration File.

    My personal solution is to either stop posting or seriously crop what I need to post as the cropped photos would only be of value on this board.

    Again, thanks

    Tom,

    Thanks for your response as well. I will look into the Watermark solution.
     
  24. Markus Harris

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    The config file hasn't been hacked. Someone in charge of adding plug-ins to this site elected to add that particular plug-in to the image handler (it probably came bundled in a "social media support" pack). Could have been Tom, could have been another of the admins working to update the image uploader handler settings.

    I could go in, find it, and turn it off. But it's not really in my purview to do so; that's for the people who maintain the software structure and functionality of this MB to do (should they decide to do so).
     
  25. Tom McIntyre

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    I thought I said in my last post that I had added it about 3 years ago when installing the social media links. Pinterest uses a differrent form than the others because it focuses only on images.
     
  26. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    So for the last almost 3 years when I posted an image the large image with "pin in" never appeared.

    My last two posts in the Practice Area now has the large photo with the Pin It function.

    Something changed, other than Tom adding it 3 years ago.

    How do I get rid of it?

    I am not a member of Pinterest if that helps.
     
  27. novicetimekeeper

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    I have never seen this pin thing, is it because I use Chrome on a Chromebook? Mind you I don't remember seeing it at work either.
     
  28. Dick C

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    Just tested it with Chrome / windows 7 /

    Still displays the large image with Pin It
     
  29. Bill Stuntz

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    Dick, I wonder if maybe you just didn't notice it because it's in the upper right corner of the text, and you were looking at the photo to be sure it's displaying correctly. Attention was drawn by the the smaller image in the post rather than the "PinIt" visual noise in the upper right corner of the text window. Maybe now that you've noticed it, you can't ignore it like you may have been doing in the past. I know I've always just ignored it, and simply stopped noticing it after a while.
     
  30. Steven Thornberry

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    I have disabled the Pinterest Mod. "Pin It" should not show any longer.
     
  31. David S

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    Indeed it does not show any longer. Have seen it before, but never knew what it was for so just ignored it. Now I don't have to ignore it either.

    David
     
  32. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Bill,

    I did not see it in the past...it would have been very obvious when large images are displayed along with the small thumbnails of the same photo.

    Dick
     
  33. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Look at this last post by me: http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?139728-Test-My-pin-it-question-what-does-it-really-do-with-my-images&p=1083974#post1083974

    Note that the PinIt reference is gone; however, when I uploaded a photo and looked at the post it shows a verrrrrrrrrry large image along with the thumbnail?

    This has been occurring only recently and is what started this discussion on the PinIt function as I assumed that they were together....obviously not based upon my last test.

    So how does one eliminate the huge photos from showing? If you are going to show the large photos what is the purpose of thumbnails other than redundancy.

    This is happening in Chrome and IE11 on a Windows 8.1 64 bit system as well as IE11 on a Windows 7 64bit system.
     
  34. Dave T

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    Just posted some pictures today, and experienced the same problem. I've got very large images, and then the snapshots below it.
     
  35. Bill Stuntz

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    #35 Bill Stuntz, Jan 21, 2017
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2017
    It was just an idea, maybe wrong. But you might have just acknowledged my point, too. It wasn't as obvious when the inline photos were smaller. The large photos DID seem to make it more noticeable.
    Oh well, it doesn't actually matter now that Steven has disabled it. Thanks for bringing it up - it was certainly worth discussing.

    And we ARE working on the "large image" problem that started when the system was down on the 12[SUP]th[/SUP]. I think we ALL want the problem to go away.

    FYI, a very counter-intuitive work-around exists. Simply delete the photo in the editor after uploading it. It will still appear in the thumbnail box at the bottom of the post without the huge image IN the post. It's not a GOOD solution, because the photos aren't visible at appropriate locations embedded in the text, but I think it's better than the huge images.
     
  36. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    Bill,

    Note my post #33 in this thread. The PinIt is gone; yet the large images, along with the thumbnails, are still there.

    So why are the large photos there along with the thumbnails?
     
  37. Bill Stuntz

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    Sorry, I was editing my last post while you were typing #36. You might want to re-read my edited post.
    You are absolutely correct - PinIt & the large images are totally unrelated. The large images appear to be an unintended side effect of a failed update on the 12th that resulted in a short MB outage. AFAIK, that outage was unrelated to the longer outage yesterday.
     
  38. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

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    With respect to the large photo image problem, this would require all members to implement this procedure.

    It would not eliminate the threads that I look at where the poster has not gone through this procedure.

    I assume that the broken Search function is possibly a result of the same outage(s).
     
  39. Bill Stuntz

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    We hope to be able to correct the corrupted posts after we solve the problem.
    And that work-around is a PITA, but it's better than nothing at this point. It's probably asking too much to expect all our users to use the work-around. I'm afraid we'll have to live with it until we can actually solve the problem. Tom & I worked VERY hard to simplify the image upload process a couple years ago, and it was working very well until the recent problems broke it.

    The broken search function is yet a 3rd problem that started with yesterday's outage.
    And then there's the intermittent "slows" problem. I suspect that side-effects of the efforts to solve the "slows" may have generated some of the other problems.

    When it rains, it POURS! Tom, Kevin, & Markus are all working on the problems. They're working on a complete system upgrade.
     
  40. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

    Oct 14, 2009
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    Bill,

    I do not know if this will help or hinder trying to find the large image problem. I ran a few tests of my own here: http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?139728-Test-My-pin-it-question-what-does-it-really-do-with-my-images&p=1084009#post1084009

    Posts 10 - 13. I ran two versions of editing as shown and found that the large image only showed up when I clicked on Inline(1) with the Enhanced Interface Editor (WYSIWYG). The image of the pendulum bob had been stored previously.

    Post 14. Decided to see what happened when I clicked on the Camera icon and downloaded an image from my system...note that it also showed up with the large image.

    Enjoy, or not...perhaps this may help one narrow the problem as it is easily reproduced.

    Dick
     
  41. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
    NAWCC Member

    Jan 15, 2004
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    The only reason I disabled the Pinterest mod was because I thought, in reading this thread, that there was concern by some about having Pinterest capability on the MB. Of course, it was not related to the large images. I thought that was understood. I can easily re-enable the Pinterest mod and everyone can enjoy their pinups.
     
  42. Dick C

    Dick C Registered User

    Oct 14, 2009
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    I have not problems with the reinstatement....just would like to see the large images resolved.
     
  43. Tom McIntyre

    Tom McIntyre Technical Admin
    Staff Member Donor Sponsor NAWCC Member

    Aug 24, 2000
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    retired SW dev
    Boston
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    The message board is overdue for a version update. Our current message board does not work with our currently available version of the PHP software in the operating system The most direct fix for that is to upgrade the message board, which I am working on.

    When the upgrades are done, I will repair the extra large images globally.
     
  44. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
    Donor NAWCC Member

    Aug 25, 2000
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    Geologist - California Geological Survey
    Los Angeles, CA
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    A huge thank you to our volunteer IT people. :clap:
    I am sure these issues have been more frustrating to them than to any of us.
     
  45. THTanner

    THTanner Registered User
    Donor NAWCC Member

    Jul 3, 2016
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    Cheers to that!


     
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