Fuess cone arbor winding stem orientation

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Doodles, Oct 28, 2019.

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  1. Doodles

    Doodles Registered User
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    May 30, 2019
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    I'm looking for a replacement pocket watch fusee cone with the arbor's winding stem at the bottom of the cone rather than the top ... see the attached image. Is there a correct way or specification which describes this much less common variation so that I will be able to search online? Or I'd be happy to make it if someone has images of what it should look like and the set up of its component parts.
    Many thanks.
    fusee cones.jpg
     
  2. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Jan 7, 2011
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    Hi Doodles,

    These fusees don't have a specific name as far as I'm aware, but quite often in front winding watches, whether as originally made or subject to conversion when re-cased and re-dialed, the fusees have a square at both ends. The arbor of a fusee was usually driven into the roughly turned cone with some considerable force, most being polygonal in section and initially having conical ends, and the brass fusee cone was only turned to shape afterwards using the coned ends of the arbor as centres to ensure concentricity. The groove was cut later, still using the conical ends of the arbor to hold it in the fusee engine. Only then would the square be made on one or both ends.

    The arrangement of the click(s) and ratchet in the bottom of the fusee can vary, depending on whether it has maintaining power.

    If you could post some pictures of the watch for which you need the fusee it would be helpful.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  3. Doodles

    Doodles Registered User
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    Hi Graham,

    Thanks for the information. I was wondering if the 2 types were basically the same apart from which end was squared off.

    I have several spare fusee cones and was thinking I'd attempt to retrofit a new arbor. But from your description of how it's manufactured it sounds like I'll end up destroying cone. So perhaps the next option is to find a fusee with a suitably long and wide pivot which can be squared.

    I received this watch glued to a green board along with bits that didn't belong to it. I redid the board as a display piece for a club exhibition and then decided to rebuild the watch. The shape & mechanics of the front winding fusee is the only thing I haven't been able confirm until now.

    Many thanks, Andrew

    verge-fusee-1.jpg verge-fusee-2.jpg verge-fusee-3.jpg verge-fusee-4.jpg
     
  4. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Andrew,

    Yes, that's your only option really. The challenge is to find one which not only fits between the plates properly, but also has the correct diameter and tooth count on its great wheel. If you find one that's just a little too short, or has slightly thin pivots, it's possible to make sleeves and/or spacers to correct that.

    This is the best example I could find of the way the arbor was fitted into the cone, from a Mudge & Dutton cylinder watch.

    DSCF7031.JPG

    Good luck with your search!

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  5. Doodles

    Doodles Registered User
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    Hi Graham,

    Your photo is a great example and I'm glad I didn't kill a fusee cone! I have a couple with nice long & fat pivots like the one on the right in the attached photo. But as you say I also need to look at the diameter and count.

    Many thanks for your interest... you've really been a great help.

    Regards, Andrew

    IMG_9718.JPG
     
  6. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Andrew,

    Actually, the tooth count isn't critical, as long as the centre pinion meshes correctly, because that ratio doesn't have any relationship with the beat rate, just the duration.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
    Tom McIntyre likes this.

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