Front & Rear Wind Fusee?

aucaj

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Feb 2, 2021
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I have seen a few of these over the years. This movement has a fusee with winding arbors on both ends.

In general, continental watches are front wind and English watches are back wind. Why would someone want both options? Why were these made and for whom?

This is by Juntes of London, no. 101 made in 1799. The date 1799 is engraved on the back plate. Baillie's only list 'Juntes' makers from Amsterdam. So, is this watch a continental fake? Or was there a London maker by that name?

Regards,
Chris

1.JPG 2.JPG 3.JPG 4.JPG 5.JPG
 
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zedric

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Aug 8, 2012
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It might just be be the angle that the photo is taken on, but from what I can see the winding arbor at the front attaches to the fusee, while the one at the back connects to the barrel? Which seems to be an even stranger configuration than "a fusee with winding arbors on both ends"...
 

zedric

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I see it now - for some reason I couldn't make sense of the edge on photo..
 
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gmorse

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Hi Chris,

I think this is a continental confection, the slide plate covering the whole of the top plate, what appears to be a tapered case bolt, and the 'A' and 'R' on the cap next to the regulator disc are further clues. Fusees with squares at both ends aren't unknown, sometimes being fitted when a movement was re-cased into a single back case, but I suspect that this example was the makers covering themselves for whatever type of case was used. I can't make out whether there's a brass edge, but if not, that's another hint. If it is a 'fake', it's one of the better ones.

Regards,

Graham
 

John Matthews

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Like many of these watches, I believe it is a marriage of components that were from a variety of sources. Some of the elements might be of better quality than others but sorry, Graham, I don't think it is such a good quality example of the type. It might be a good example, though ;). Not helped by the resolution of the photograph, in making a judgement, but the quality of the engraving does not appear to me to be good. Quantity rather than quality is my impression. Better photographs might persuade me otherwise.

John
 

gmorse

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Hi John,

It does depend on what you compare it with; it's a lot closer in superficial appearance to the lower end English products than many of the more obvious fakes.

Regards,

Graham
 

aucaj

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I can't make out whether there's a brass edge, but if not, that's another hint.
HI Graham,

I will put this one in my lightbox and get better photos posted this evening. Could you tell me where to look for the 'brass edge'? I'm sorry; I'm not sure what that is?

Thank you,
Chris
 

gmorse

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Hi Chris,

It's the plate that fits between the dial and the dial, (bottom), plate in older watches to make space for the motion work under a flatter dial. Into the 19th century, they gradually fell out of use, partly because convex dials became commoner and partly because the dial plates themselves were hollowed out ('hollow-back'). The brass edge often carried the case joint, as here, and sometimes the case bolt as well.

DSCF6963.JPG DSCF6964.JPG

Regards,

Graham
 
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aucaj

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Here are some more photos. It looks like it does not have a dial plate. The top plate appears to be milled to produce a lip around the periphery.

I might guess that the maker may have had training in England but was not operating there?

Thank you,
Chris

IMG_5973.JPG IMG_5974.JPG IMG_5975.JPG IMG_5976.JPG IMG_5977.JPG IMG_5978.JPG IMG_5979.JPG IMG_5980.JPG
 

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