friend's great-grandfather's gf clock... ?

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by bruce linde, Jun 13, 2019.

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  1. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    i'm going to help a friend get his clock working. all i have is these three photos and that it was his great-grandfather's clock and been handed down.

    any comments?

    thx,
    b


    IMG_0814.jpg IMG_0813.jpg IMG_0815.jpg
     
  2. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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  3. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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  4. DeanT

    DeanT Registered User

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    John Jordan Bristol, 1722, retired 1760. Partner with J Hort. is the reference in Baillie.

    The diamond half quarter markers would indicate that the movement was pre 1725 if it were London made. Provincial clocks used these markers a little later so it would be 1725-1740 as a best guess.

    I'm not an expert on that style of case so will leave that for others to comment.

    Hands look like they have been replaced.

    Cheers
    Dean
     
  5. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    awesome... i will of course take lots of more better photos when i'm there, hopefully in the next week or so.
     
  6. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Peter hasn't been here for ages, I am hoping he is well.

    Mr Jordan was about from 1722 to 1760 when he retired according to my book. I guess this is 1730s or so.

    Is the case a US made one? Don't recognise the timber.
     
  7. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    i don't know why people have the ability to take great/large photos but crop and/or send small photos... sigh.

    more when i can... thx all.
     
  8. DeanT

    DeanT Registered User

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    Nick, that was what I was thinking also given its current location and that it has been there for a very long time. The style and type wood are unusual for English. Obviously Bristol is on the US side of the UK and they could have made and shipped the movement to the States where it received a case.

    Will be interesting to see the movement.

    Nice clock BTW and well worth restoring.

    cheers
     
  9. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User

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    I am usually pretty good with wood species but i honestly cant determine what we have here based on those photos. the cabinet looks a good bit newer than the dial face would indicate.
     
  10. rmarkowitz1_cee4a1

    rmarkowitz1_cee4a1 Registered User
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    Based upon the first post of this thread, all we have for now are a few less than great pix provided by the owner and not much else.

    That said, I wonder if the case is actually faux grained and what we're seeing is paint (an ochre?) rather than an actual species of wood. Sometimes this graining was done to closely mimic a more desirable species (by the standards of the day). Often it was more fanciful and not any particular species. Done just for nice.

    Though faux finishes were used on both sides of the Atlantic for case furniture, I wonder if the case style and the possible use of a faux finish would suggest an American origin for the case? It would be interesting to know the primary and secondary woods to that end. Could be pine or other woods considered less desirable in those days, e.g., maple, birch, poplar even cherry, and so on.

    Of course this is all based more upon impressions in the face of little good evidence at this point. Yes, wild speculation on my part. Overall, considering the earlier working dates for the maker with the use of a multipart brass dial but a later style for the case which may be a product of this side of the Atlantic, I would suggest that they probably came together later on?

    Now, there are perfectly legit tall case clocks with American cases and European movements. Sometimes it was done later for any number of reasons, also perfectly legit, e.g,, the original was damaged or not considered in the latest fashion and so on.

    Just some off the cuff thoughts.

    RM
     
  11. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    went and picked up the movement, took photos. case is a replacement... can't really tell how new but in excellent condition. my friend originally reached out because it wouldn't run for more than a minute or two... i put a small block behind the back of the case to bring it back to level and allow the pendulum to not scrape on the back of the case and voila... runs great.

    otoh, totally filthy... and someone went punch crazy inside.

    comments/insights welcome, thx.

    IMG_7779.jpg IMG_7780.jpg IMG_7781.jpg IMG_7782.jpg IMG_7783.jpg IMG_7784.jpg IMG_7785.jpg IMG_7786.jpg IMG_7787.jpg IMG_7788.jpg
     
  12. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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  13. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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  14. DeanT

    DeanT Registered User

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    Very dirty! Will benefit from a clean and removal of as much of the damage as possible from previous poor repairs.

    Nice movement. As we suspected the case is not original but looks quite nice and matches the movement okay.

    Post some post restoration photos as well.

    Cheers
     
  15. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    btw... the time side weight is 12 lb 5 oz, strike side is 14 lbs even.
     
  16. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    and... i sent him pictures of some of nick's silvering projects and suggested that he have essential parts silvered.

    all i plan on doing is a very gentle and careful cleaning and servicing. some guys clean plates so you could do surgery on them... i'm not one of those. i just want to make sure there are no issues and that it ticks happily (again) for the next decade or two.
     
  17. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    It has had a fair bit done to it, including new wheels plus the ubiquitous metal cable.
    The hour and seconds hands are replacements.

    It looks like the dial has been dipped in something without dismantling. It should clean up very well and will look much better.

    Jordan is said to have retired in 1760, with his first date in my book being 1722. This looks like later 1730s to me. The case would have been oak originally I think and though I agree this looks a good match I would have thought it was later in design.

    Cleaned and silvered with matching hands it would look great.
     
  18. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    cleaned it up a bit to see what was under the WD40 and black icky stuff... love the gear markings...

    movement_front_initial_clean.jpg

    my friend has given the go-ahead to proceed with resilvering...
     
  19. Lightwood House

    Lightwood House Registered User

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  20. Lightwood House

    Lightwood House Registered User

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    The hood opening seems to fit the clock dial well, but the case does seems later. I believe that the "horn" style of pediment usually wouldn't pre date the 1760's. Could the case have been custom made for the clock later? There are all sorts of possibilities why that could have happened. It would be hard to tell without closer inspection. Very nice clock.[/QUOTE]
     
  21. Lightwood House

    Lightwood House Registered User

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    PS- I have had great success with re-silvering . It is actually quite easy. Replacing/repairing the wax for the numbers and other engraving can be a little tedious. I know some collectors prefer not to re-silver, but I think a cleaned and resilvered dial really sings- as it was intended to by the maker, and makes it easier to read the time, especially at night. But, each to his own.
     
  22. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    The movement has been cleaned and serviced and has been running great for a week or two. I will be returning it to the case (hopefully next week), at which time I will take better pictures of the case ... which is definitely newer and a replacement.

    The owner and I will be re-silvering the dial… All materials have been received, we just need to schedule time.

    more to come...
     
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  23. Lightwood House

    Lightwood House Registered User

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    Cool- Eager to see the finished result
     
  24. DeanT

    DeanT Registered User

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    I assume you will post some photos as I am keen to see the result!
     
  25. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    yes... i promise! i have some of the movement on the test stand, just finishing some actual work (can't believe my clients expect me to do promised work when i'm working on clocks... sheesh!). give me a bit...
     
  26. DeanT

    DeanT Registered User

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    You have plenty of time.....
     
  27. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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  28. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    more pics of the cleaned movement and pieces... note gear circles marked on front plate, some replaced parts, piece of velcro on the bell to silence almost completely (the clock is located in their kitchen and they really want it to just tick)

    parts_is_parts.jpg front_gears_marked_out.jpg movement_front_right.jpg movement_back.jpg movement_front_2.jpg movement_left_2.jpg front.jpg parts_cleaned.jpg movement_left.jpg movement_right.jpg
     
  29. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    took a while, but finally done...

    before_and_after.jpg dial2.jpg dial_in_case.jpg full_front_2.jpg full_clock.jpg
     
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  30. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    Huge improvement, well done. A nice set of hands would really finish it off :)
     
  31. gleber

    gleber Registered User

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    Nice work. Looks great, but the leaning finial upsets my brain.

    Is the Eiffel tower key ring 3D printed (we have a bunch around the office)? Maybe it should be a replica of the Leaning Tower of Pisa?

    Tom
     
  32. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    he’s a tennis buddy, she’s french... hence the eiffel tower thing. i prefer it to those tassel things people hang off their tall case keys (i like those about as much as poodles w ribbons in their hair. o_O)

    i will have them straighten the finial. :)
     
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  33. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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    I'd be worried about something hard hanging from the key as it might mark the case.
     
  34. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    it’s made out of twine/cord
     
  35. bruce linde

    bruce linde Technical Admin
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    Can you post a photo of the hands you would recommend for this one? I might Photoshop them in so my friend could see them. He and his wife like the clock but might not be as into the nuances as us
     
  36. novicetimekeeper

    novicetimekeeper Registered User

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