French figure clock case

[Steve Neul]

I picked up this clock case which was broken in several places and missing a piece. It needs a movement for it and would prefer to at least put a movement in there made by the original maker, who I have no idea who that is. Anyone have an idea?

 

[JTD]

This is a generic French clock case and I doubt it would be possible to pin it down to a particular movement maker. It may have been used by several companies to house movements from any of the large French movement makers.

Others may know more.

JTD

 

[new2clocks]

It needs a movement for it and would prefer to at least put a movement in there made by the original maker, who I have no idea who that is.

Unfortunately, the case maker and the movement maker were probably different firms, so you may never know for sure what movement was contained in the case.

The good news is that it most likely contained a movement from one of the major movement makers of France - Japy, Vicenti, Marti, etc., and any of their movements that fit the case will give you a fine French clock.

Regards.

EDIT: I see JTD and I were typing at the same time.

 

[Steve Neul]

That may be good news. I've been having a difficult time finding a movement the right size for the clock of any brand. The hole size is 91mm and the outside diameter should be around 10 cm. Not much wiggle room.

It being a generic may be good too. Since I've been making repairs and adding a part of a different material I plan on coating it with gold leaf. I'm going to put the imitation stuff on the back and 24k on what shows. Someone before me has made some small repairs. I've found some evidence of gold paint on it.

 

[jmclaugh]

The obvious candidate would be a pendule de Paris movement, the diameter of most but not all of these is 81mm. These movements are typically fitted to a case by two long metal straps attached to the front bezel and two screws that go through the rear bezel and straps and pull it tight against it. However this case has two screw holes to the front opening that appear to be for securing a movement when fitted much like those that are held inside a brass drum that is screwed to holes in the case.

Good luck with finding a movement to fit.

 

[Steve Neul]

The obvious candidate would be a pendule de Paris movement, the diameter of most but not all of these is 81mm. These movements are typically fitted to a case by two long metal straps attached to the front bezel and two screws that go through the rear bezel and straps and pull it tight against it. However this case has two screw holes to the front opening that appear to be for securing a movement when fitted much like those that are held inside a brass drum that is screwed to holes in the case.

Good luck with finding a movement to fit.

You may be right. I went to google images and there were a few different clocks that had the same cylinder for the movement.

I had seen the type movement you are describing. The holes in the side of the cylinder I assumed were there to keep the movement centered in the cylinder. The cylinder is more that 3 1/8" deep from front to back.

It will be a challenge finding a movement but I am patient. It would probably be easier if I could get a movement, dial and bezel separate but I don't have the talent to go that direction.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

I picked up this clock case which was broken in several places and missing a piece. It needs a movement for it and would prefer to at least put a movement in there made by the original maker, who I have no idea who that is. Anyone have an idea? View attachment 781118 View attachment 781120

Appears from the photos to be late 19th century white metal, not the best quality casting.

Seems that someone hit this with the rattle can of gold paint. 2 new feet.

Made by the 1000's to be fitted with a movement.

Shouldn't be too hard to find the components to create a new clock just for the fun and the experience. Just don't spend much as it's not worth it.

RM

 

[Steve Neul]

Appears from the photos to be late 19th century white metal, not the best quality casting.

Seems that someone hit this with the rattle can of gold paint. 2 new feet.

Made by the 1000's to be fitted with a movement.

Shouldn't be too hard to find the components to create a new clock just for the fun and the experience. Just don't spend much as it's not worth it.

RM

It has paint on it in spots but for the most part is brass plated. I've wiped several places with lacquer thinner and nothing came off on the rag.

The foot in the center I made out of lead. The other two are original however the one on the left was broken off when I got it.

The cost of the movement is an issue to me as well. I found one on ebay which looks in perfect condition but they want about $200.00 plus shipping.

 

[rmarkowitz1_cee4a1]

It has paint on it in spots but for the most part is brass plated. I've wiped several places with lacquer thinner and nothing came off on the rag.

The foot in the center I made out of lead. The other two are original however the one on the left was broken off when I got it.

The cost of the movement is an issue to me as well. I found one on ebay which looks in perfect condition but they want about $200.00 plus shipping. View attachment 781337

What color are the raw broken edges?

If a grey color -> spelter also called "pot metal".

If a coppery color -> may be bronze, but some of the Asian repops, e.g., the swingers, are being made from brass instead of the spelter like the original ones.

Details aren't crisp. Even some of the spelter cases actually had good detail. May be painted over, too. There are people who replate the spelter and cast iron cases. Look bright and shiny like that. Obscures the details.

Regardless, you can buy a very nice complete one for < $200.

Unless doing it for the experience, which is quite valid, not sure why one would go through the trouble with that case.

RM

 

[Steve Neul]

What color are the raw broken edges?

If a grey color -> spelter also called "pot metal".

If a coppery color -> may be bronze, but some of the Asian repops, e.g., the swingers, are being made from brass instead of the spelter like the original ones.

Details aren't crisp. Even some of the spelter cases actually had good detail. May be painted over, too. There are people who replate the spelter and cast iron cases. Look bright and shiny like that. Obscures the details.

Regardless, you can buy a very nice complete one for < $200.

Unless doing it for the experience, which is quite valid, not sure why one would go through the trouble with that case.

RM

It's spelter alright, you can see a bit of the edge of the leg in post 8. Don't understand the plating process, it appears to be plated with copper first and then brass or bronze over the top. It has to be plating, the metal coating is extremely thin.

It had been repaired before in small spots which the repair was touched up with paint. The overall majority of it is metal.

I'm kind of enjoying restoring the clock and plan to keep it for myself. I would never pay more than a grand for a real one and this one is good enough for my needs.

 

[JTD]

Don't understand the plating process, it appears to be plated with copper first and then brass

Yes, that is correct. First a thin plating of copper over the base metal, then the brass.

JTD

 

[Steve Neul]

I don't believe this case has been re-plated, it may have been a bad cast or something went wrong with the plating work which has obscured the detail. Anyway I don't have the means of re-plating it now which would further obscure the details more. I got to thinking when I cover it with gold leaf it will also obscure the details also so I think I will get the tooling needed to sharpen the details in some places such as the figures before proceeding.

 

[JTD]

I don't believe this case has been re-plated, it may have been a bad cast or something went wrong with the plating work which has obscured the detail.

I didn't say it had been replated, I simply pointed out the process, first copper, then brass.

I think the loss of detail is not because of anything to do with the plating, but rather the result of subsequent applications of paint.

I think I will get the tooling needed to sharpen the details in some places such as the figures before proceeding.

I would be very careful about doing that. If you are unhappy with the loss of detail, I would remove all the paint first, and see what the detail is like after you have done that.

Personally, I think the finish looks pretty good as it is.

JTD

 

[Steve Neul]

I didn't say it had been replated, I simply pointed out the process, first copper, then brass.

I think the loss of detail is not because of anything to do with the plating, but rather the result of subsequent applications of paint.


I would be very careful about doing that. If you are unhappy with the loss of detail, I would remove all the paint first, and see what the detail is like after you have done that.

Personally, I think the finish looks pretty good as it is.

JTD

The biggest issue with the details I think is the faces on the figures. They don't have any paint on them. The whole case hasn't spray painted, it's just little spots which has had some repairs. I think maybe what you are perceiving as paint is where I've been heating it with a torch soldering it back together. In any case I'm going to strip any paint off this morning which it may have. It may be hiding some repairs which could be done better. I have seen epoxy on spots on the inside.

I believe I can improve the details, I have quite a bit of experience in sculpture but in wood. It being metal is the only issue.