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French clock

W

wilfr

I am repairing a french clock 3 3/4" movement there are no markings on the movement .
On the dial Kinable palais royal n"131.

I have a broken part fly vane srike fan.

Is there someone or a place I could obtain the part :???:? tks.Wilf
 
W

wilfr

I am repairing a french clock 3 3/4" movement there are no markings on the movement .
On the dial Kinable palais royal n"131.

I have a broken part fly vane srike fan.

Is there someone or a place I could obtain the part :???:? tks.Wilf
 

shutterbug

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If you just broke the fan itself, yes they are easy to get and not expensive. If the Arbor is broken, it's a whole different ball game :)

Here is a place to get the fans. You might want to consider part 14334 which is an assortment. Total cost is 4.75 plus shipping, but there is a $20 minimum. ( Timesavers) Here is a place that does not have a minimum: Norkro
 
W

wilfr

dear shutterbug.

yes The arbor is broken and the fan also, so I need a complete assy.
You know how delicate these are so please people all help is appreciated.

Tks Wilf.
 

oldticker

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You might be able to get a spare from ebay - with a bit of luck you may get one that is the same but there are different sizes unfortunately.

Otherwise send it to a local repairer to do it for you. Wouldn't be expensive I don't think.
 

LaBounty

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Hi Wilf-

I may have what you are looking for but, as Oldticker says, there are many different sizes.

If you can't find one, or your local repairer can't help, you can e-mail me privately.

French movements are fairly unforgiving and it would be best to repair the original rather than replace it.

Good luck with it!
 
W

wilfr

I am still unable to post a picture, shows you what age can do to an old clockman :???:??If someone could help me (again) it would be appreciated, the pictures are in flickr but i do not seem to be able to create a link in my message.??
TKS
 

LaBounty

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Hi Wilf-

Thanks for the picture!

That one has certainly seen better days but I think it can be restored and made to function properly. In fact, I think it would be easier to restore than to replace.

I'm including a photo showing several French clock butterflies. Just glancing through, I don't see any two alike and, without knowing accurate dimensions of your butterfly, it would be difficult to match up with any in the pile.

29.jpg

Good luck with your quest!
 

bangster

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Hey LaBounty...
I didn't know you wuz a butterfly collector. :biggrin:

bangster
 

oldticker

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Wilf If your thinking of replacing the fly wheel you will need to measure the diameter of the pinion leaves and length of the pinion.
Also how many leaves are there?

Measure the width and length of the fly too.
 

harold bain

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Wilf, looks to me like all you are missing is a stiff piece of wire into the two holes, and sitting in the grove on the arbor.
I think David is right, that matching up yours might take a pile of rejects to find the right one. Better to fix the original.
Harold
 

shutterbug

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I don't see anything wrong with the arbor either. The shape of the fan itself is not of major importance as long as it's close to what you have. But that one looks usable. As Harold says, just get a piece of wire to secure the fan to the arbor and you're good to go. It needs to be tight, but not so much that it can't turn on the arbor.
 

Ralph

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The shape is not important (as long as it works and clears), but balance or poise is very important on French clocks.

The solder on it, may have already put it out of poise.....

Is the fan soldered to the arbor?

Ralph
 
W

wilfr

here i am again, first let me explain what happened to the fan, I broke the pivot then I broke the shaft were the spring was suposed to be There is more ( by now all of you are laughing) what the hell at least i am honnest.
then a made a part on the lathe to exstend the shaft I had to drill a hole in the shaft undersize to friction tight the original shaft but now that part would not pass thru the hole so i tried (tried) to enlarge the hole so I could pass the new extension, the drill jammed and broke the end piece off the fan so now I removed the shaft and soldered the fan with several new pieces in place,and started from scratch the picture I send earlier was the final product but being fusy I could not live with this kind of a part in an 18xx year old clock so please look in your old stock please. if not I will have to build one from scratch.
here is a picture of what I realy need thanks guy's regards Wilf.....

197576244_6b77ff5408.jpg 197563565_88fce061f5.jpg
 
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LaBounty

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Hi Wilf-

I'll look through my "butterfly collection" (that was a good one Bangster!) and see if I have anything that matches yours.

I still think it would be easier to restore than replace. I've restored some that only had the pinion and everything else had to be added. It wasn't easy but, even in that extreme case, I felt it was easier than finding a replacement.

A replacement might only get close and will need to be modified in order to function adequately. That might include hand filing each pinion leaf in order for it to properly mesh with the existing wheel. By the time you are done trying to fit the replacement, the original might not look too bad after all :).

Maybe we'll get lucky and I'll find just the right butterfly...I mean, I'll net the perfect specimen :).
 

LaBounty

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Hey Wilf-

Here's what I found...

30.jpg

As you can see, neither has the correct fan but these are as close as I can get to the correct pinion. A six-leaf pinion isn't as common as a seven and that narrowed down our choices a bit.

In case you can't read my writing...

1. Shaft a bit short from Shoulder to shoulder (2.92 cm) and the pinion is a bit small in diameter (2.5 mm).

2. The pinion is too short (2.7 mm) and might not be positioned to mesh with the wheel.

Let me know if you need measurements from either of these.

Regards,
 
W

wilfr

David.
I do appreciate all the time you have spend looking for these items, let me see what I can do with the one I have first,as you said it is important that the pinion is the right lenght and has 6 teeth, if all else fails we will look at it again later, maybe there is someone out there with the right part :???:??.
Ik can not thank you enough.

Wilf..... I will keep you posted.
 

harold bain

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Wilf, not sure your level of expertise, but you may be able to reposition the bushing to accomodate a slightly different fly. Easier with the fly, as you only have one gear to worry about.
Harold
 
W

wilfr

well I had to make a new part I think I can live with this one, the retaining spring has to be adjusted but dimensions are a OK. I would not make these as a living,


This is the old fan and the new one.


199754226_24321a9c16.jpg 199761991_95b25d5aa3.jpg
 
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Ansomnia

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Ralph, I didn't realize the poise was so important for a fan. Do you just balance it on a poising tool?

Which part of the fly do you adjust for balance?


Michael
 

Ralph

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It is important on French clocks. They have very little power at the end of the train and some clocks will give you fits, because of the poise of the fly.

A poising tool will work, if the jaws open wide enough. You can set up some parallels in a vise and use that...or you can just run it by itself, with dry polished pivots, in the plates to check.

If it works, don't fix it. If you have a problem with a French clock striking not starting , and you are satisfied with the spring strength, check the poise.....if you make a new fly, check the poise.

You can trim the heavy blade with a file. It shouldn't take much.

Ralph
 

Ansomnia

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Ralph, thanks for the nifty advice on French flies.

...hmmm, "French flies"...French fries? Hope the bong isn't reading this! :biggrin:


Michael
 
W

wilfr

thank you Ralph I did balance it the best I could inside the plates, I came close but not 100% It works very well however I shall wait until the end of the spring ,or I could let the spring down and try it with minimum power.
I have to thank each of you for the help here a picture of the final product.

Wilf

200402372_b07a33f807.jpg
 

Ansomnia

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Looks like you did a real "bang-up" job on the replacement fly! :biggrin:

Thanks for sharing your project with us. I learned a lot from it.


Michael
 

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