French Clock With Westminster movement

Discussion in 'General Clock Discussions' started by claussclocks, Mar 16, 2020.

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  1. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
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    One of my antique customers called me in to look at a newly arrived Hall clock. I will post pictures of the case later but I wanted to see if anyone can shed any light of the movement maker. The clock strikes Westminster on four very heavy square steel coiled gongs. Due to time constraints I only had time to examine the movement briefly. Does anyone recognize this mark. I won't have the entire movement in until next week

    Any input will be appreciated

    DPC

    French Westminster.jpg
     
  2. leeinv66

    leeinv66 Moderator
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    I believe that is the mark of RSM Rose and they were a German maker, so I'm not sure where the French connection comes from. Here is a thread on them: Click here
     
  3. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
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    That's what I was thinking. It looked like a German mark I have seen but I could not remember who. I have no idea what it is doing in a French clock. Could be a marriage. I really expected to find a large bell when I opened it. The case is the wrong time period for a Westminster movement and certainly a German one at that.

    Of course we all know, all these clocks are original , heh heh heh.:rolleyes: :D
     
  4. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    I would suggest that this trademark was never that of RSM. It is the mark of Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim / Wilhelm Müller & Co., who did, of course, take over RSM and continued to use the RSM rose logo.
     
  5. JTD

    JTD Registered User

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    Steven is right, this is the mark of Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim, not RSM.

    Why do you suppose the case is French? Presumably there is something distinctive about it that tells you, but it would be most interesting to see the whole clock.

    JTD
     
  6. brian fisher

    brian fisher Registered User
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    in looking closely at what you pictured david, the movement seems somewhat odd for a hall clock. it appears to be only 2 trains and yet plays westminster. i see no chains hanging out the bottom of the movement? is it a spring winder? also, the hammers seem to hit chime rods set on a horizontal plane? judging scale by the finger in the photo, i would guess the movement plate dimension to be only 5-6" square.

    from what little i can see in the photo, perhaps it appears this is a box clock movement?
     
  7. Steven Thornberry

    Steven Thornberry User Administrator
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    David did say that the hammers hit on "four very heavy square steel coiled gongs." So, not rods.
     
  8. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
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    I will have pictures early next week. There was a customer coming in to look at the clock so they wanted the hands on the dial for appearances. It is chain driven and has a long drop pendulum. It is a very similar style to this clock but this is not it.

    Red French Clock -2.jpg
     
  9. chimeclockfan

    chimeclockfan Registered User
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    There was a recent topic on 2 train Westminster chime clocks. I have never seen a 2 train Westminster movement by Uhrenfabrik Mühlheim / Wilhelm Müller & Co., so cannot tell whether this is a 4/4 quarter chime movement or a 3/4 quarter chime movement which will only strike at the top of each hour. As with other 2 train Westminster chime movements these fell into obscurity and are not commonly recognized in collectors' circles.
     
  10. claussclocks

    claussclocks Registered User
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    I have seen and worked on a two train Westminster. They can be a bit troublesome. I have serious doubts from my cursory examination of this clock that everything is original. I will have to get into it to confirm that suspicion though
     
  11. leeinv66

    leeinv66 Moderator
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    I stand corrected.
     

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