"French" clock escapement question

[Keith Doster]

The angle in which this verge engages the escape wheel looks extreme to me. However, the clock appears to run this way. And since the rear bridge for the verge/pivot is not adjustable, but the front pivot/bushing is adjustable, should I assume this clock just runs this way and leave it alone? I so much want to make the verge arbor more perpendicular to the escape wheel, but if it isn't broken, then why "fix" it?? I'm thinking someone made the mistake of moving the adjustable pallets and this is what they had to do to it to make it run. But surely this is an unacceptable set up. Yes/no?

 

[shutterbug]

It certainly doesn't look ideal. The arbor would normally be straight across. What kind of pallets does it have? Show those and the adjusting unit please.

 

[Keith Doster]

It certainly doesn't look ideal. The arbor would normally be straight across. What kind of pallets does it have? Show those and the adjusting unit please.

I just found this thread (https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/adjustable-last-pivots-how-and-why.177729/) in which you, Shutterbug (and others), made some comments which clarified things for me. Primarily, "these are set at the factory and don't mess with them". (I also learned they are called eccentric bushings)

Well, I wish someone had told the guy who "serviced" this movement before me. And he shouldn't have messed with the pallets either. You can hopefully see the buggered screw head on the left pallet. So now what? I'm assuming I need a good depthing tool to correct this, and a really good screwdriver to re-adjust this eccentric bushing. And I probably need to fiddle with the pallets. I'm beginning to think this task is above my pay grade.

I'm also wondering if it would be just as simple to knock this bushing out entirely and fabricate a new one. I think I read in Steven Conover's Clockmaker's Newsletter where he did just that. But again, that is beyond my abilities, and the cost of farming it out would never be approved by my client (who is also, unfortunately, my brother-in-law).

 

[R. Croswell]

The angle in which this verge engages the escape wheel looks extreme to me. However, the clock appears to run this way. And since the rear bridge for the verge/pivot is not adjustable, but the front pivot/bushing is adjustable, should I assume this clock just runs this way and leave it alone? I so much want to make the verge arbor more perpendicular to the escape wheel, but if it isn't broken, then why "fix" it?? I'm thinking someone made the mistake of moving the adjustable pallets and this is what they had to do to it to make it run. But surely this is an unacceptable set up. Yes/no?

It looks like you have a verge with adjustable pallet tips. These can be tricky to adjust. You may also have a verge that is not original to this clock. If clock runs well for a full 8 days I would leave it along.

RC

 

[Fitzclan]

I have found that the eccentric bushings aren’t as frightening as the hype makes them seem. They are there for a reason and that is so you can adjust the verge so that it will function properly, but you Do need the right screwdriver.
If they are buggered like yours, they have been messed with at some point, and the pallets would then have had to be messed with as well or it wouldn’t run at all.
The problem I see with this one is not so much the eccentric bushing as being able to re-adjust the pallets while the verge sits between the plates.
If it was an outside visible escapement you would have a much better chance of getting it right.
If it were my own personal clock I wouldn’t be able to leave it alone until it was straightened out, but someone else’s? I don’t think I would go there. You would probably be in for a long ride.
Add to that as RC suggested, a verge that is possibly not original, this might be the best it will ever be.
I’ll say good luck with it but I’ll be interested to see what you decide.

 

[Keith Doster]

I have found that the eccentric bushings aren’t as frightening as the hype makes them seem. They are there for a reason and that is so you can adjust the verge so that it will function properly, but you Do need the right screwdriver.
If they are buggered like yours, they have been messed with at some point, and the pallets would then have had to be messed with as well or it wouldn’t run at all.
The problem I see with this one is not so much the eccentric bushing as being able to re-adjust the pallets while the verge sits between the plates.
If it was an outside visible escapement you would have a much better chance of getting it right.
If it were my own personal clock I wouldn’t be able to leave it alone until it was straightened out, but someone else’s? I don’t think I would go there. You would probably be in for a long ride.
Add to that as RC suggested, a verge that is possibly not original, this might be the best it will ever be.
I’ll say good luck with it but I’ll be interested to see what you decide.

Mr. Fitz, thanks for the good advice. I am not a glutton for punishment. If this thing runs after ai get it back together, I'll consider it done. Maybe not well done. But done. I can just imagine the nightmare of trying to adjust those pallets.

 

[Willie X]

I agree with RC, the verge is probably a transplant.

It would be interesting to see if the E-wheel is a match for the dead beat verge, or maybe the dead beat verge is running on the French recoil style E-wheel ...

Willie X

 

[JimmyOz]

Have a look on the inside of the plate, they sometimes have a scribe agross the circle, whether this was done by the factory or a reparer trying to make fine adjustments I don't know? As others said leave well alone if it is working.

 

[shutterbug]

Check to see that the teeth face forward as the escape wheel turns. If they are pointed backward, you have the wrong type of verge.

 

[Fitzclan]

Looks more German than French to me From what we can see.

 

[Uhralt]

I have seen French clocks with the anchor more to the side of the escape wheel than to the top. We are used to see the anchor on the top, so it looks strange. However, theoretically it can work just fine in any position as long as the crutch is formed in a way that it can drive the pendulum properly. So maybe everything is quite original, except the "work" on the eccentric bushing.

Uhralt

 

[Keith Doster]

I'm not sure what I was thinking, but this clock will not run at all. The verge has been adjusted far too high and barely engages the EW at all. Now I am in the process of modifying a rather large screwdriver (to have a hollow ground tip) to enable me to move the eccentric bushing. That will lower the front pivot and thus the pallets. Wish me well.

 

[Willie X]

A good close-up photo of the E-wheel might save you a lot of time there. I think you may have some totally mis-matched escapement parts there? Willie X

 

[Mike Phelan]

Someone has obviously been at the pallet arbor, and that's probably the reason for the pallet arbor not being horizontal.

As the pallet cock is lowered it makes the outer drop less - the converse is true. As the pallets themselves can be moved within the cock that makes no difference, so as others say, the entire pallet arbor has been swapped from another clock and is wrong.

 

[Keith Doster]

A good close-up photo of the E-wheel might save you a lot of time there. I think you may have some totally mis-matched escapement parts there? Willie X

As was mentioned by Willie and Shutterbug, there may be some sort of mismatch going on between the verge and the escape wheel. Here is a close up of the two. Something doesn't look right to me but that's why I'm here asking questions.

 

[Vernon]

It looks like the pallets are on the wrong sides. I would be tempted to move the eccentric so that it matches the distance to the ew with the other plate as a starting place.

 

[Keith Doster]

It looks like the pallets are on the wrong sides. I would be tempted to move the eccentric so that it matches the distance to the ew with the other plate as a starting place.

Me too. That's the temptation I'm fighting. But I think I'm losing that fight. I suppose there's not much to lose at this point. However, since this eccentric bushing is already buggered, if my screwdriver slips even once, it's game over. Time to make a new bushing or something.

 

[Keith Doster]

With fear and trepidation, I decided to move the eccentric bushing in the general direction it presumably needs to go. I realize I'm shooting in the dark here. First, I modified a big screwdriver to fit the shot as perfectly as possible, and so I could get a good solid grip on it and have the needed torque and control. Then I clamped the plate to the edge of my bench so it couldn't move. Having done all that, the bushing moved relatively easily. At least I have a procedure that works and minimizes to possibility of more damage/slippage in the eccentric screwdriver slot. It already looks bad. It won't tolerate another boo-boo. Plus it would be impossible to make this adjustment while the movement is assembled.

 

[RJSoftware]

Looks like ew for pin-palette, maybe?

Go to Timesavers.com and see what kind of ew wheel that would match (tooth count & radius) and install on current ew arbor (I assume ew pinion works), or find suitable ew arbor & pinion match.

The current ew looks to have lock, drawl and impulse. But I could be looking at it backwards, depends on direction rotation and which side of ew teeth was intended to employ/rig.

The palettes/anchor seem original and jive with the eccentric bushing. Before modifying palette depths measure distance entry and exit tip to tip. It might be wrong distance anyway, but keep your advantage.

It may be intended to run ew backwards, so that palettes interact with flat side. The impulse angles are on the palettes. Maybe not. The only surfaces concerned are the lock and impulse. So either side of ew tip (flat or curved) would probably work.

The first step I would do is try to make do. Measure current tip to tip spread distance. Keep noted. Level arbor with concentric. Adjust palette depths. Make scratch marks on palettes where they are held by anchor in case you need to restore palettes to original location.

To adjust, establish ew roation direction. Loosen both screw for each palette, just enough so they slide but snug. Extend both palettes out near full extend.

Place finger on ew edge to do controlled turning. So you can examine exact moment of drop (where ew tip drops off palette tip).

Work entrance palette first by swing anchor crutch so entrance palette contacts lock portion of ew tooth. swing=turn=not forceful.

If the clock has studs that restrict the pendulum swing this will help determine how far to swing anchor. Else guestimate a 1 inch swing (1/2 inch side to side. When you push ew tooth into lock portion of palette, you want the palette to slide as you swing anchor to the crutch guestimate. Tighten screws some.

Then with finger on ew turn established rotation, stopping moment ew tooth drops contact. Adjust exit palette to be at edge of impulse/lock and arriving ew tip.Tighten screws.

Test positions, look for ew teeth landing spots. Fine tune depth by turning eccentric so ew tips land on lock/stop and still drop properly (without drop ew won't turn)

The palette adjustment reach determine the number of ew teeth used in the span between entrance and exit palettes. Whatever you do don't grind palette impulse angles too many times as the span is critical.

If all fails you can still restore to original location.

 

[Mike Phelan]

EW is definitely a dead-beat of some sort, either a solid pallet or a pin-pallet. It looks like the EW teeth aren't exactly radial, so more likely to be the sort that Keith has, albeit it being wrong.

 

[shutterbug]

I believe those essentrics were designed to be adjusted toward the end of the movements construction. The clock would be running, and the inspector would make the final adjustments at that time. The probably had special tools for both measuring and turning the thing.
A good video of the wheel and anchor together in the clock would solve the question of direction of rotation.

 

[RJSoftware]

definitely ew has to turn clockwise as your picture of both ew and anchor palettes would not work turning left. This also means the flat side of ew teeth interact with palettes.

The palettes look fine on the anchor, probably both entrance and exit pallets are correct depth for the original ew.

The ew needs cleaning. But I am concerned the tips of each ew tooth are bent. Even the smallest microscopic bend on end of ew tooth can cause issue. They all need to be straight on flat side and pointy like thorns.

After removing ew and cleaning with tooth brush and dish soap use a thin tweezer to pull/slide across ew tooth surface, concentrate soley on making flat side straight (no curve) and that the angle of each flat is same. It's the tips that bend, I reffer to them as sharks teeth.

The microscopic bend on ew tips happen when poorly adjusted palette depths allow wheel to free spin and suddenly catch on tips. This is usually from setting depth to shallow which is attempt to get poorly running clock to keep going. The shallower the depth the less strength required. Instead the time train should be examined for power loss.

Straightening the teeth assures the escape action doesn't stumble. A short ew tooth can cause this as it robs impulse momentum. A sharks tooth is shorter. If tip is broken all teeth can be evened in lathe facing tips gently with a stone and then restored straight with tweezers. Caution not to remove too much is obvious. It can effect the span distance between entry and exit.

Test the restored ew by putting finger pressure on gear before ew. You can use small screwdriver if access is issue. Push pendulum or crutch and examine escapement action. The palettes may have to be adjusted.

The eccentric adjustment goes as follows: Lower till escape no longer rotates, then in smallest increments you can do, turn eccentric back till rotation begins ( drop happens), then a smidge mote for variance of ew tooth length.

 

[Willie X]

It's definitely a deadbeat setup. Whether it belongs in that clock is still still a question. I'm thinking it's a clever transplant, could be from a 400-Day clock.
Willie X

 

[RJSoftware]

Yep, looks like 400 day.

 

[shutterbug]

If it was a 400 day, it would take a lot more modification than just adding a verge, wheel and pendulum. 400 day clocks only run 8 to 10 beats per minute. Someone would really have to know what they were doing to make that modification work.

 

[RJSoftware]

The ew would only have to match tooth count and diameter. The repair could of kept original arbor and pinion. But, I was going by ew tooth profile. Looks real familiar, not sure.

 

[Willie X]

Probably (technically) a big improvement, just more delicate and and a little to big ...
Willie X

 

[Mike Phelan]

Remember that in a 400 day clock, the EW pinion mates with the centre wheel - no other wheels between them.
However, to give a years' running, there are three wheels between the barrel and centre wheel.

 

[Keith Doster]

OK, I give up. I've read Terwilliger's 400 day deadbeat escapement adjustment section until I'm thoroughly baffled. Nothing works. So I've come to the conclusion this was a bad marriage between incompatible parts. Since this clock was purchased from a guy who had recently purchased 400 clocks at an auction, I have no idea if it EVER worked. In my humble opinion, the verge assembly looks too large for this small escape wheel. The geometry is all off.

To make matters far worse, I made numerous repairs elsewhere - mostly bushing work. And it was good bushing work, too! They look great, and the movement seems like it would work great . . . If only I had a working escapement. So a word to the wise: address the escapement first. Had I done that, I wouldn't have wasted so many hours making other repairs for nothing.

Now, anybody got a movement that will go in this clock case?

 

[RJSoftware]

Anniversary, 400 day clocks can be tough, no doubt. Probably everyone here has one or two set aside in the nightmare closet.

Some are just cheap pos that don't deserve fixin. Plastic parts are especially discouraging. Not saying yours is one of them, just saying buyer be wary about make shift.

I would still try to do research and identify to see if movement had been modified. Sometimes selling for parts is good.

That next clock you have looks good. A free swinger style I think but dont know. You should show us more pics at different angles, start a new thread to identify it. Then hunt the movement. Looks spring driven by winding arbor positions and only 2 is strike with no chime.

Sometimes a case by itself with no maker tag/mark can be identified by design attributes alone.

The numeral style and thick wood makes me think of American Cuckoo clock company. Strange name they gave themselves as most clocks they made where thick wood oak grain and not cuckoos.

But I'm guessing, start a new thread and see.

 

[tracerjack]

In your very first photos, is that solder on the brass collar of the verge? The photo is slightly out of focus on it, so I can’t tell. The reason I ask is because the verge arbor and crutch seem original, having pleasing proportions between the plates. But, the verge itself looks rather large on it, especially when compared to the arbor diameter. If someone put a different verge on the arbor, evidenced by solder, the escape wheel could be original. That would mean a new verge could be made. A lot of work, I realize, but often less than trying to track down a movement that would fit that dial.

 

[shutterbug]

I don't think we've established that it's a 400 day clock. If you could post a video of it working (or trying to), maybe we could spot something that you are missing. Post to Youtube and link here.

 

[tracerjack]

The photo in post #14 shows a verge arbor with a crutch, so the arbor at least is not from a 400 day movement. And photos in post #1 show a movement with a strike hammer, not a 400 day movement. I thought someone mentioned the verge and escape wheel looked like the might have come from a 400 day. But, movements from even a standard 400 day are quite small, as are the parts. I thought the last photo was the case for the movement in question, a free swinger. If that is the case for the movement we are examining, I would think the movement would be considerably larger than a 400 day and could not use any 400 day parts. To me, the verge arbor looks proportionally smaller than the verge, which looks like it was from much larger movement.

 

[RJSoftware]

Sorry, senior moment. Got sidetracked because I didn't bother to re-read whole thread. Only ew sorta resembled 400 day. Identifying maker and movement is best step. Who knows, a working movement for cheap could be waiting for a home. About Cuckoo clock company, I meant New England clock company. Thought I saw similar dial. Maybe not.

 

[RJSoftware]

About clock being French. I assume it has no maker marks.

One dead giveaway of identifying French movement is that they have small external blocks for some of the bushings. Those external blocks each have a screw that attaches to plate and at least one guide pin on the blocks to assure correct location. I call them relief assembly bushings because you can assemble with gear sort of in place, then attach the relief bushing after fiddling gear pivot in place.

The French clock pivots are extremely brittle, so the relief bushings reduce the stress of assembly.

French pivots are harder to see to guide to hole because they are so small. Much smaller than German clock pivots.

I think yours is German free swinger. My guess anyway.

Hac became Junghans. FMS, Mauthe, Keinzle, are some more likely.I did some searching, no luck.

The dial looks like it has inlaid porcelain numbers. That style dial is unique. Good for identifying information.

Nice clock, don't give up. Certainly will be worth the effort.

 

[Keith Doster]

Lots of comments! I'll try to address them by way of a more detailed explanation of what I'm up against.
1. The movement pictured above came out of the case pictured above. It appears to be original to the case although that is an assumption on my part based solely on the fact that there is one set of screw holes that align with this movement precisely.
2. The only reason I think it is French is because multitudes of pictures of very similar clocks are described as being French. Could be German, British, Mongolian, who knows??
2.5 There are no markings or trademarks on the movement other than the numbers you see in the picture below and the number 9 on several parts.
3. Others of you mentioned similarities to 400 day escapements. As far as I can tell, this is not a 400 day escapement.
4. HOWEVER! it is a Graham deadbeat with adjustable pallets that are similar (identical?) in design to many 400 day escapements. Only bigger. Thus the reference to Terwilliger's 400 day clock repair book. I used his section on adjustments to try to figure out how to do just that.
5. Everything adjustable had been moved prior to me receiving this movement. So there is no starting point, no original position to return to with either the pallets or the pallet arbor.
5.5 RJSoftware - There is what you refer to as an external block with a screw and a bushing on the rear plate. See photo below. Evidence of Frenchness?? And yes, the pivots on this clock are nearly microscopic.
6. TracerJack - There appeared to be a spot of superglue or something similar on the verge collar/arbor. Looks verrry suspicious. And several of you have suggested this verge may not be original to this movement and therefore is not matched/mated to this escape wheel. I am sorely tempted to believe you are correct. It appears to me that the verge is too large for the escape wheel and cannot be adjusted to work properly. The geometry is wrong. But I have no way of verifying my suspicion. And making a new verge is far beyond my abilities.

So I have a cool movement with awesome bushing work and cleaned mainsprings, and a somewhat decent case (that big crack needs some attention) for sale at bargain basement prices!! Make me an offer I can't refuse! Please!! (And rest assured, I will not put a quartz movement in this case)

 

[Willie X]

Measure the distance between the plates and look for a replacement e-wheel assembly with matching verge assembly. Not that many square movements out there and most round movements will have a 'to short' pendulum. So, first thing would be to calculate (as best you can) the e-wheel tooth count, that will be your main issue, plus the e-wheel diameter and e-wheel to pallet arbor spacing. Others may have a similar clock. Maybe someone can help you with this. Willie X

 

[tracerjack]

Well, if no one takes it off your hands, you can set it aside until you are no longer baffled by Terwilliger's pages on 400 day deadbeat escapement. Took me about two years of off and on reading and setting up many 400 day clocks before it finally made sense. Before then, I thought I would never get it. Once it makes sense, finding or making a verge may then seem doable to you. Or, you may be able to get the verge that is on it to work, even if it isn't original.

 

[Vernon]

It looks like the pallets are on the wrong sides.

I see now that I was wrong and the pallets look fine. Sorry about that!

Well, if no one takes it off your hands, you can set it aside until you are no longer baffled by Terwilliger's pages on 400 day deadbeat escapement. Took me about two years of off and on reading and setting up many 400 day clocks before it finally made sense. Before then, I thought I would never get it. Once it makes sense, finding or making a verge may then seem doable to you. Or, you may be able to get the verge that is on it to work, even if it isn't original.

I had the same issue with that book. I purchased David LaBounty's "The deadbeat escapement" video which has helped me immensely.

 

[Willie X]

400-Day clocks are designed for a lot of lock and an extreme amount of throw to the drive pin. And if you did suceed in making it run the tooth could be way off and you would be back to square one.

I would spend my time looking for the right replacement parts or a good complete movement. Again, the BPH has to be within a fairly narrow range.

Willie X

 

[RJSoftware]

I have a Vincette rectangular plate French clock. I will have to dig it up out of my stash (long story).

Here is an old thread about that clock, no pics however. The thread is somewhat silly but some useful info.

https://mb.nawcc.org/threads/the-french-connection-a-clock-saga.36123/

 

[RJSoftware]

ok, dug it out and took movement out of case. Only 2 screws like typical french roulant but rectangular.

The maker logo is small and round, a little bigger than 1/4 inch.
It says:

Medaille D'Argent
Vincetti & C ie
1855.

I will try to take pics, and measure ew diameter
and anchor dimensions.

My ew is 22mm (reaching in with caliper.)
Distance between plates 32mm.
Ew tooth spread between palettes looks like 8.t
Anchor spread/width is 18mm.

 

[RJSoftware]

pics, if I can upload...

 

[RJSoftware]

Hey Keith sent money via PayPal.
RJ

 

[RJSoftware]

Just a information follow up on this thread:

I purchased this clock from Keith (much appreciated!) and wanted to correct some of our diagnosis.

The parts are all original except the pendulum rod/bob and maybe ew. More than likely the ew is original too.

What surprised me to be original was anchor/palettes. This was the elephant in the room, for me, because I never seen adjusting palettes on any French clock. But the adjustable palettes are integral to the movement as the back cock which has rear crutch bushing has non adjustable screw holes. The back cock is fixed location. So depthing depends on the right amount of adjustment of each palette and then the overall depth by the eccentric anchor bushing.

First I burnished each ew tooth with tweezers also making flat profile side of tooth straight.

By evening out each palette depth and then adjusting the eccentric plus lubricating palettes, was able to achieve a consistent running clock that still running today, however has a weak amplitude swing of about 1/2 inch total.

I'm hoping the oil and action of the clock will act as polishing agent to the ew teeth and palette impulse surfaces.

The pendulum rod has adjusting rating nut and French style clamping screw. To get time keeping correct the rating nut had to be removed and bob clamped to to almost to end of full length. Not a problem as it works now but proves pendulum not original to movement. For some reason this is common with French clocks...

The movement is definitely original to case as the legs are each 2 part and factory lookingovement holes unique to these movement legs (2 holes per each leg-3 legs) also have exposure patina on brass. The gong has rust patina matched to the wood and no other case holes.

The next step will be to improve the robustness of pendulum swing. The shallower the depth the less swing so deeper we go. I should have done more trial and error before full assembly, ah well. I may try adjusting impulse angle by light grinding, Iknow, I can hear some of you gasp (not really, just dramatic emphasis -lol), but now if I where to grind it, to slightly change impulse angle on palettes, which way should I go, more steep or more shallow?

How to consider this?

Steeper makes more surface, therefore pushes further but a weaker push.

Shallower pushes less distance but with more strength.

The ew only transmits a limited amount of power and there is no bushing wear or power robbing issues.

I hope further palette/eccentric adjustment solves this, hate to open can of worms on myself

RJ

 

[shutterbug]

I think you'll want about 2 degrees angle on the impulse faces. More than that will cause issues.

 

[RJSoftware]

Hey Shutter, looks like 2 degrees is the established norm.

Guess I need a protractor? I remember some old trick of drawing a circle with tangent line that touches circumference. I guess circle size is same as what spinning anchor on side.

The tangent line is supposed to line up with both palettes, one on top of line, turn anchor and other lines up underneath line.

Maybe this establishes 2 degrees impulse angle?

Ah, but now I see how to depth the adjustable palettes. One even at tip, other even at start of impulse section.

 

[Keith Doster]

Just a information follow up on this thread:

I purchased this clock from Keith (much appreciated!) and wanted to correct some of our diagnosis.

The parts are all original except the pendulum rod/bob and maybe ew. More than likely the ew is original too.

What surprised me to be original was anchor/palettes. This was the elephant in the room, for me, because I never seen adjusting palettes on any French clock. But the adjustable palettes are integral to the movement as the back cock which has rear crutch bushing has non adjustable screw holes. The back cock is fixed location. So depthing depends on the right amount of adjustment of each palette and then the overall depth by the eccentric anchor bushing.

First I burnished each ew tooth with tweezers also making flat profile side of tooth straight.

By evening out each palette depth and then adjusting the eccentric plus lubricating palettes, was able to achieve a consistent running clock that still running today, however has a weak amplitude swing of about 1/2 inch total.

I'm hoping the oil and action of the clock will act as polishing agent to the ew teeth and palette impulse surfaces.

The pendulum rod has adjusting rating nut and French style clamping screw. To get time keeping correct the rating nut had to be removed and bob clamped to to almost to end of full length. Not a problem as it works now but proves pendulum not original to movement. For some reason this is common with French clocks...

The movement is definitely original to case as the legs are each 2 part and factory lookingovement holes unique to these movement legs (2 holes per each leg-3 legs) also have exposure patina on brass. The gong has rust patina matched to the wood and no other case holes.

The next step will be to improve the robustness of pendulum swing. The shallower the depth the less swing so deeper we go. I should have done more trial and error before full assembly, ah well. I may try adjusting impulse angle by light grinding, Iknow, I can hear some of you gasp (not really, just dramatic emphasis -lol), but now if I where to grind it, to slightly change impulse angle on palettes, which way should I go, more steep or more shallow?

How to consider this?

Steeper makes more surface, therefore pushes further but a weaker push.

Shallower pushes less distance but with more strength.

The ew only transmits a limited amount of power and there is no bushing wear or power robbing issues.

I hope further palette/eccentric adjustment solves this, hate to open can of worms on myself

RJ

RJ, I am very happy to see this movement in more capable hands than mine. Pictures of your progress would be greatly appreciated! And next time I get such an oddball movement, I'll come looking for you.

 

[Vernon]

I remember some old trick of drawing a circle with tangent line that touches circumference. I guess circle size is same as what spinning anchor on side.

https://abouttime-clockmaking.com/downloads/CAD%20in%20Clockmaking.pdf

 

[Vernon]

Here is one that I did several months ago. It had a weak swing before redoing the angles.