Free to a good home

[Benjamin]

Here's my 1st NAWCC post:
I recently awakened a long dormant Accutron. It runs very fast (about +5 min/hr). Online research points to the need for servicing (clean, lube, indexing, phasing, whatever). I'm not interested in going to the expense. I'd like to send the watch, free of charge, to any person in the US who would like the watch for the pleasure of performing repairs, then keeping the watch to do with whatever they please. Any takers or suggestions?

 

[MrRoundel]

PM sent.

 

[Benjamin]

Here's my 1st NAWCC post:
I recently awakened a long dormant Accutron. It runs very fast (about +5 min/hr). Online research points to the need for servicing (clean, lube, indexing, phasing, whatever). I'm not interested in going to the expense. I'd like to send the watch, free of charge, to any person in the US who would like the watch for the pleasure of performing repairs, then keeping the watch to do with whatever they please. Any takers or suggestions? View attachment 707791

Accutron is on its way to a new home now, and probably a expert repair job. Thank you all for an enjoyable 1st foray into NAWCC forums (or is it fori?).

 

[Tom McIntyre]

The correct plural is acutally "fora" but I suspect most everyone would feel unformfortable with that. Forums is acceptable in any case.

The name of the underlying software package is XenForo.The lead designers also wrote our predecessor package vBulletin almost 20 years ago.

 

[MrRoundel]

While I am no expert, I do endeavor to be careful and seek answers before making things worse for a repair. And I have been developing a liking for other electronic watches and Bulova mechanicals as well. If I am not confident that I can get the watch regulated and running well, I'll probably pass it on to an expert. I'll be sure to report back on any progress. If the watch has a model 214 or 218 movement in it, I'll have a factory movement holder for it, thanks to Jerry T. That should help a bit.

Thanks, Benjamin, and welcome to the NAWCC's excellent forum.

 

[Chris Radek]

It's a 2182 and may just need service. You can't regulate it into keeping time, because you can only regulate an accutron a few seconds/day.

Welcome, Benjamin!

 

[MrRoundel]

I was just watching a great video class on servicing the Accutron 214. It was put on by a gentleman by the name of Henry Frystack, who I believe was employed by Bulova to teach Accutron servicing. They are definitely a different sort of animal. I'm glad I watched it before thinking of opening up this watch. I will spend a bit more time with the video before actually going in for the thrill. The proper sequence in dismantling looks very important indeed. That index wheel, pins, etc., look different, and quite challenging.

Chris Radek , Do you know if the movement holder for the 218 will fit the 2182? I realize it has an extra digit, but the first three are a good match. Thanks.

 

[Chris Radek]

You have the chrome one with the electrical socket on it? That will hold the 2182 just fine. Do you also have the test set to drive it?

 

[MrRoundel]

Chris Radek , no to both questions. The holder I have is a plastic type that came from the factory. I'll have to assess my odds, and what I'll feel comfortable putting into working on it properly, once I get it. I do have what I believe is easy access to the metal holder with the conductive arm, if that's the one you're referring to. I'll play it by ear. If the watch looks as good, condition-wise aesthetically, as the image suggests, I'll probably pass it on to one more knowledgeable of them, and who has the specialized equipment required to do the work. That will be either with the intention to own it for years, or pass on ownership. In Benjamin's generous name, of course.

I did see that it's pretty important to have that Watchmaster/Bulova Accutron meter with the proprietary power supply setup, which I don't possess. Cheers.

Update: I just checked on the movement holder you, Chris Radek mentioned. That appears to be one I hadn't seen before. It looks like it has a plug-jack build into it, yes?

 

[Chris Radek]

Oh you have the black plastic one - it's for 214s. The real purpose of the special movement holders (the plastic one for 214s and the metal for 218s) is to hook them up to the Watchmaster meter. Otherwise there's really nothing special about them.

Yes the 218 holder has a plug for one wire, and the other has a clip that you clip onto the battery strap. Then you can run the movement at various amplitudes (necessary for proper setup) and check its current consumption (which tells you some things about its health).

 

[neighmond]

I have an accutron test kit, and Henry Fried's repair manual, let me know if you need either.

 

[MrRoundel]

Oh you have the black plastic one - it's for 214s.

Thanks, Chris. I'll have to take a look at what I have. The plastic one that is marked 218 must be for another purpose. Cheers.

 

[Chris Radek]

Oh interesting, can you take a picture of it please?

 

[Kevin W.]

They are neat watches, i got one a while back at a bargain price. I love listening to the hum. I got a package deal with 3 more for parts or service them one day, the only Bulova watch i own.

 

[MrRoundel]

Chris Radek : A little investigation has turned up that what I thought was a movement holder is actually a caliber 218 case opener (At least it's marked with a "218".). I'm not so sure I have great faith in the plastic holding up, at least it MIGHT help me open the watch when I get it. Cheers.

 

[MrRoundel]

Well, that's the best gift I've ever received from a stranger on my birthday. I just received the fine Accutron watch from Benjamin, and it is a beauty. And it is indeed a runner, even if it is a bit fast at this point. I pulled the back off of the movement with my plastic 218 opener. It's super clean inside. It is obviously a well loved Bulova Accutron. The dial and hands are perfect as well. So far I am more than impressed with what Bulova did with this watch.

Now that I have the watch, I'll step up and order a movement holder and perhaps even a tester. I almost bought a tester that was specifically made for the model 214, but avoided making the mistake. I'm going to be very careful and prudent with this watch. It is too nice to take any chances with.

Oh, and in box there was a bonus watch. A rather cool late seventies vintage Timex. It's a big one. Sits tall and has an unusual wood-grain looking dial. It

Many thanks to Benjamin and the NAWCC MB and crew of contributors. Cheers.

 

[Chris Radek]

That's awesome!

 

[Chris Radek]

This reminds me: Back in 2019 I wrote "In praise of the 218" on another forum that's more about Accutrons. Everyone loves their 214s but the 218 is really a huge improvement. (My opinion only.)

If you want to get into servicing Accutrons, I think the way to go is to learn mechanical watches well first, then tackle the 218, then later the 214. Later still, the 221, if you're brave!

 

[MrRoundel]

Thanks, Chris. BTW, what is the "you know what model" you mentioned in the post?

 

[Chris Radek]

The one that often doesn't want to phase up and index properly because of amplitude: the 214

The one that breaks itself if you use the quickset date wrong (too near midnight): the ESA916x

Ooh, this also reminds me: if you're interested in Accutrons you might want to see the talk and demo that Tim and I put on for the Boulder Horological Society (Chapter 160).

 

[Chris Radek]

Not on 218s! It's just fine whatever you do.

 

[MrRoundel]

Since the gift watch is running very fast (May have gained nearly 2 hours overnight!), I had considered seeing if an Accucell stepped down battery might correct it. Then, after watching the presentation that Chris, and others, put on, I realized that this might be a shot in the dark. So at this time I'll study up as much as I can, and perhaps get my hands on the right tools before attempting the service.

I think that I can do the service once I gain a bit more knowledge and confidence about the 218. I have already picked up a few important "don'ts" mostly thanks to Chris. Thanks, Chris. Cheers.

 

[Brad Maisto]

Just my two cents, so to speak, but if you need any additional expert advise on this watch, Mr. Laurence Blanchard, who resides in Kokomo, IN is indeed an “Accutron” expert.
Brad Maisto, KY Floral #44 Secretary

 

[MrRoundel]

Not much to update other than the fact that I did buy an Accutron test meter. I lost an auction for one last week, as I tried to get fancy with my bidding and out-fancied myself. Once I receive it, I'll get into servicing the movement. It comes with the index wheel holder and 218 movement holder, along with what looks like an index pawl finger collet adjustment tool and another 218 case opener. The meter looks very lightly used. Fingers crossed.

 

[MrRoundel]

Well, I'm wading into cleaning this Accutron 2182. My Accutron test kit should arrive today so I'm getting the movement ready for cleaning. I'm at the point in the service manual disassembly process where I need to rotate the index and pawl fingers away from the index wheel. Is a small slotted screwdriver or old oiler OK to use to turn the collets? It looks like Bulova is showing an old oiler in the image showing the collet being turned. At least the handle looks like an oiler handle in the image.

Oh, and the only magnification I have is with a B&L stereo microscope with 15x wide field eyepieces. Will that suffice as it is or do I need to get a doubler or find a Stereo-Zoom style head? Mine is non-zoom. Many thanks ahead of time. Cheers.

Victim-in-waiting:



Update: I found some earlier posts by Doug Sinclair that describe the tool as a modified oiler, so I got my question answered. Cheers all.
'

 

[MrRoundel]

Wow, maybe the victim-in-waiting should have had a picture of me rather than the watch.

I now have the watch completely apart. I can't say it was easy. Even when one is super careful, things can go wrong. It's definitely a plus to have the nice dedicated 218 movement holder and factory manual to work with. The microscope I'm working with is a non-zoom, and I only have 10x and 15x eyepieces. As was suggested by Chris Radek, 20x would probably be better. That, and a stereo-zoom head. But I think I can make do while I budget for a zoom head.

A couple of things to note: One, despite what the service manual says, removing the date bridge before removing the date indicator detent spring is a better idea, methinks. I did it by way of the manual, with the bridge in place, and it was a much bigger pain than what I saw in a video where a guy took off the date bridge first. Two, the manual says not to pry the base of the tuning fork to get it to release from the plate, but rather use a punch through a hole in the plate to knock it loose/out. Mine was stubborn, and when it finally gave, the fork dropped onto the bench. While that doesn't sound horrible, the fact that the index finger is attached to the fork and ends up on the bottom when the fork falls out makes it a potential problem. It looks like mine dropped favorably, but I may not know until I get the watch back together.

When the fork dropped out, the spacer washers did as well. Is it odd that both spacers are the same color, and perhaps thickness? In the video I watched, and as noted in the manual, they should be of different colors/thicknesses. Thanks ahead of time. Cheers.

 

[MrRoundel]

So what's with the Accutron service manual telling me to separate spring-held cap jewels from the train bridge and pillar plate for cleaning? Does one really remove these jewels? They look to be of the type Bulova uses that aren't removed for cleaning. They stay in situ and have vents to allow solvents to evaporate completely. Any comments on the book's recommendations, and whether I should somehow follow them? Thanks again, all. Cheers.

 

[Peter John]

They used both types. There is nothing to remove on yours.

 

[MrRoundel]

Many thanks, Peter John.

 

[MrRoundel]

Sorry if I'm boring people with the somewhat blow-by-blow coverage of my Accutron experience. I'm doing it mostly to keep Benjamin (Accutron benefactor) up to date on the progress. Bottom line: So far, so good.

Yesterday I was able to set the train and train-bridge. I won't say it was easy. In fact I felt a bit luck when the bridge finally dropped over the pivots after about 15 minutes of fiddling with it. But somehow Bulova designed some magical way that things guide themselves in without having to touch the index wheel.

I was fortunate in that the 700 test kit I used included an index wheel holder. And while it was a bit scary setting the wheel into the holder, it did work as advertised and I rattled the index wheel's teeth a bit with an electronic jacuzzi.

Based on a tip by Mike at My Retro Watches on "the tube", I rotated the index and pawl fingers into position and the watch started to run. This tip was given in order to eliminate the possibility of dealing with the springs and arrows of outrageous fortune in the calendar works, only to find the watch didn't run anyway. And apart she'd come again. So good news on that front.

I'll deal with the calendar mechanism later today. If I can get it together properly, the next step will be attempting decent regulation. I'll be looking for some guidance from somewhere, or someone, on adjusting the phasing. I see that it is done via that pawl finger bridge's cam screw. Cheers, all.

 

[MrRoundel]

Presently I am impatiently waiting for a couple of capacitors that I hope will fix my meter, which I believe may be broken. If the meter isn't the issue then, as Chris Radek said, is perhaps demagnetized forks or debris buried in the tuning fork cups, or?

I just re-set the index jewel and pawl jewels as per the service manual. I did have to adjust the pawl lift-pin and the index jewel finger gauge a bit. Just for kicks I hooked the movement holder up to the 700 meter again. It still buried the needle on the high side of micro-amps in both low amplitude and micro-amp settings. I hope the problem is in the meter. I might know early in the week. Cheers.

 

[Peter John]

Are you using a 1.55 volt cell or an accucell? Peter

 

[MrRoundel]

Hi Peter. Thanks for your response and question.

I'm using a #344 cell that reads ~1.62V. I have considered the Accucell, especially if I can't slow the watch down a bit. I may have mentioned elsewhere that I checked the two capacitors in the test meter. Granted, my test was probably imperfect, as I didn't remove the components from their circuits prior to testing, but going from lead to lead on both of the capacitors showed a very large disparity between them. One, in the 214 circuit, registered in the Mega Ohms. The other, in the 218 circuit, measured lower than 1 ohm. Mean anything to you?

BTW, I now have a Bulova variable power supply that I can use to supply 1.35V or less to the meter. Do you think there's something to gain from that. I'm sort of going on the fly here, and by the seat of my pants. Many thanks. Cheers.

 

[Peter John]

I would try the accucell which is supposed to be 1.35 volts. Most of my 218’s use the 344/350 and keep good time. I have had a few tho that ran fast until I used the accucell.

 

[MrRoundel]

Sadly, replacing the capacitors didn't help, the needle still buries with the 22K ohm resistor test. Rats. FWIW, the two old components both have identical values but read very differently from each other when out of the circuit. Although that may be the nature of capacitors that aren't in the exact state of charge when tested. Regardless, it's not looking good for the meter.

Thanks, Peter John, I may end up going that route. Unfortunately, I don't seem to be able to give the watch a good test/adjustment because the meter I bought seems to have a problem.

 

[Chris Radek]

http://members.iinet.net.au/~fotoplot/Bulova%20700%20Test%20Set-l.jpg

This problem is interesting. Here is a list of my assumptions:

1. This schematic is right (which means the meter itself indicates µA directly in this range without a shunt or divider or other trickery).
2. Your meter works properly in the battery-measuring mode (meaning the meter itself is good).
3. You have replaced both caps and they are now good.

If these are true, I have to conclude that your meter has a simple short. It might be the blue and yellow wires, their attachment points, maybe they are pinched together, or perhaps it's in the 214 connector. I can imagine if one of those contacts is bent it could touch the other one and you might not notice because you haven't tried to use that connector yet.

It may be hidden elsewhere inside, where some component lead is bent and touching something it shouldn't be.

Oops, this leads me to another assumption I've made:

4. The meter buries (needle all the way to the right) as soon as you put it in Read µA mode, even before hooking your test resistor into the clips.

If #4 is untrue it's a bit more mysterious. Can you confirm?

 

[MrRoundel]

Hi Chris,

Thanks again for your time here. Yes, one through three are true. As far as number 4, yes, the meter does bury the needle with a battery in the nest but no resistor in line.

Interestingly, I used the Bulova variable power supply to drop the voltage of the "battery" down to around 1.1 volts. Then when I hooked up the meter to the movement holder, it went high but then came down to around 5 microamps. I worked with it like that to make my adjustments but was still getting a bit of a jerky run from the watch. Then, as luck would have it, the blue clip slipped off of the ground strap and shorted to the movement holder plug-fitting. Now it's burying the needle again. I am hopeful that the short when I was using the power supply set at a lower voltage setting (1.05-1.1V) wouldn't hurt the meter.

I put the ~1.55V battery back in the watch and started fiddling with the index and pawl fingers a bit. At first it seemed like the watch wasn't going to run, but it started up once I moved the fingers a bit. Obviously such guesswork isn't the way to do things but I wanted to make sure that the watch would still run, and it did/does.

I have a zoom stereo head on the way so I'll probably wait for that to get here so I don't have to keeps switching types and powers of magnification. At least that's the idea anyway.

One thing I'll say is that lighting makes all the difference in the world. I got my hands on a B&L microscope light setup and it works great. The problem comes in trying to move the movement around with the leads attached, as those wires are stiff and fight you a bit, hence the clip dropping from the ground strap. I know the stiff wires are a known limitation of the Accutron meters.

I know that this matter keeps getting more complicated the deeper I get. Sorry for that. Again, I appreciate your help whenever I can get it. Cheers.

 

[MrRoundel]

http://members.iinet.net.au/~fotoplot/Bulova%20700%20Test%20Set-l.jpg

If these are true, I have to conclude that your meter has a simple short. It might be the blue and yellow wires, their attachment points, maybe they are pinched together, or perhaps it's in the 214 connector. I can imagine if one of those contacts is bent it could touch the other one and you might not notice because you haven't tried to use that connector yet.

Wow, you nailed it, Chris Radek ! It was indeed a short between the spring contacts on the 214 plug. And you're right, I hadn't paid a lot of attention to it because I haven't been working on a 214.

I separated the offending contacts and turned on the meter, checking both low amplitude and read microamperes. It's definitely reading high, but not burying the needle. It reads into the Voltage scale with 1.05V supplied and the selector set on Read Microamperes. When placed on the Low Amplitude setting it drops to an area between the two scales, but certainly above maximum allowable for the 218.

So I'm still looking at dealing with some issues, but at least it's a start, and I know the meter is working. Many, many, thanks.

Update: I started trying to slow the train down, via the pawl-bridge cam, while the 1.55V battery was installed and the watch was running. It went from double-time, to a bit of a slow stutter, then it would seem to smooth out. Unfortunately, it would start to stutter again when I tightened the pawl-bridge screw. I fiddled around a bit more and got the train slowed down and without an obvious stutter. I placed a second hand on it and timed it with my phone's stop-watch. Lo and behold, it had gone to what seems like a decent rate, and with a smooth sweep. My timing to one minute had the watch and the stopwatch only .38 seconds apart, which I would call a margin of error here.

I don't have a timing machine that will work with a tuning fork's BPH so I might just have to call it a day. Success may be at hand even before I got my zoom scope head. Fingers crossed. Thanks again, Chris, Peter John, and whoever else helped me along the line here. Next I might have to try another. After all, I have a working meter and good magnification now.

Oh, and for kicks I attached the 218 clips to the 220K resistor in the test that Chris described. My meter reads it at 6 microamps in the Read Microamperes position. Cheers.

 

[MrRoundel]

I think the second hand/index wheel stutter is due to either a worn index pivot or a broken hole jewel. I had noticed that the pivot danced around a bit more than it should in there, but after getting my zoom microscope head it looks worse. I'm going to have to remove the train bridge again and take a better look. There's no way that I damaged the pivot or hole-jewel, FWIW.

Question: Do all 218 series Accutron have fork spacers of two different colors? This one doesn't. FWIW.

 

[Chris Radek]

Not all, but most have one silver and one brass. But if the fork doesn't rub on anything yours are fine, that's their only job.

I'm glad you have a working meter now! Your current is too high - if it remains that way when the collet is rotated to lift the drive finger, it's still the case that you have an electronics problem or a partially demagnetized fork. It should be under 10µA while running the gears with a regular 344 battery. With no load it should less, around 5-7. Accucells are never needed for 218s in good repair.

It sounds like you also might have a bad index wheel if I interpret correctly what you're calling stuttering. It's really common that one or a few teeth are damaged, usually by mishandling, but sometimes from damage from running unserviced, and the wheel will have a definite dead spot then, where it wants to pause.

Have a look at this one, where (aside from all that green corrosion) you can easily see several dead spots, where the gear train was stuck but the fork kept on running, which rubbed the tooth completely away. (Usually the damage is more subtle than this though. The only real test is how it performs in the watch, as it's very hard to see some problems.)

 

[MrRoundel]

Thanks for your response, Chris.

That's a great image of the index and pawl jewels. While I don't think that I can get that kind of magnification with my 15x eyepieces and 3X zoom, I may be able to get a look once the watch is stopped. Dang index wheels are apparently getting rare and expensive. I think I found one for $60 at this point. I might have to digest the tool purchases for a while first.

I uploaded a crude video of the dancing pivot show. Is that normal? Many thanks.

Wobble, wobble...

 

[Chris Radek]

I can't tell - that might just be the tip of the pivot being misshapen. That's not going to bother anything in an Accutron. When you take it back apart, maybe you can get a better look.

$60 is about the expected price currently!

 

[MrRoundel]

If, and when, I get my hands on a new 218 index wheel, or even want to better inspect the present one, is it possible to leave the dial-side workings in place while the train-bridge is removed? It looks doable, but I can't tell for sure. And would that make setting the trains wheels more challenging somehow? Many thanks. Cheers.

 

[Chris Radek]

You'll have to pull the second hand off, but otherwise, yes you can leave the dial side alone. You can just put the movement in the holder with dial/hands still installed.

What is your plan to deal with the excessively high current? That might be the real problem, with a defect causing the amplitude to be too high or too low. I suggest you be sure that is fixed before you put the train back in. With just coils and fork mounted, hook it up to power and check the current.

 

[MrRoundel]

Thanks, Chris. I forgot about that, albeit major, issue. I guess I just fixated on that index wheel. So if there's too much current the watch will run fast even with a new $60 index wheel.

So if I allow the calendar works to stay in place, along with the pawl-bridge, will that effectively set it up to test as a "bare fork operation", as set forth in the manual? At that point it says, as I'm sure you're aware, that it can read as low as 6 micro-amperes. Obviously I'm trying to avoid dealing with as many twitchy springs as I can. Cheers.

 

[MrRoundel]

Chris Radek :
Well, I removed the train-bridge and train. I then replaced the train-bridge without the train in order to be able to replace the battery clamp properly. I ran my variable power supply up to 1.35V and the meter popped to the right, but then did as I believe it should and came back down. It stopped at ~6.25 microamperes. That seems odd, doesn't it? I mean just taking the train out of the picture and getting a proper reading? Any input is appreciated, as always. Cheers.

 

[Chris Radek]

Terrific, that sounds like it's working right. If connecting it to the train makes the current go way up, the train isn't free. Check everything! Is the plastic washer on your sweep wheel ok? Do all wheels have a bit of end shake?

 

[MrRoundel]

Thanks Chris. I did see a bit of debris of sorts on some of the wheels, and pinion and pivot on at least one of them looked a bit rough. Not as worn as what I've seen in videos, but not perfectly polished, to be sure. That said, I am looking at them under a 3X zoomed 15x eyepiece setup, so perhaps they won't look as perfect?

I'm going to run the wheels and bridge through the US again after pegging out the jewels. Truth be told, I am a bit afraid of pegging those jewels, as you can't easily remove the cap jewels and I don't want a piece of pegwood breaking off in there. I'll clean things again and take another look under the higher magnification. Thanks again, as always. Cheers.

*Update: Question: I'm not sure what you're referring to with the plastic washer on the sweep wheel. I know there's an extra shoulder/part on the third wheel that sets down against that spring. If that's what you're talking about, it looks OK to my eye. Thanks.

 

[Chris Radek]

Yeah those are meant to be cleaned only with ultrasonic. If you break off pegwood in them, you'll have to press apart the whole setting and then reseat both jewels, which is hard. They aren't really meant to be taken apart and put back together. If you have one that's really screwed up, I'll send you a replacement entire setting - that's pretty easy to replace.

Usually a high current draw problem is pretty overt, not a minor cleanliness problem. You did pull the center wheel off its post on the dial side and service it, right? Those get stuck really bad. Or it might be lack of end shake somewhere, or your sweep brake isn't releasing when the stem pushes in, that kind of thing.

 

[MrRoundel]

Ah, that extra piece on the third-wheel is a brake. Interesting. I didn't know what it was for exactly. So it could be like dragging brakes on a car. Interesting.

Yes, I did remove the canon pinion assembly. One thing I wondered about early, is whether I lubricated the center-wheel assembly properly. I may have made the mistake by doing it like I saw a guy do in a video, or at least how I thought he did it, rather than how it shows in the manual. I oiled the center tube, as instructed, but did not place oil below the canon pinion and on top of the incorporated wheel. Instead I just placed oil at the bottom of the canon pinion below the wheel. Uh-oh?

FWIW, I never set the hands since I've had it apart. I only placed the seconds hand lightly on its post to see how fast the watch was running. So I'm hoping that no harm was done to the center wheel assembly.