For Sale ads now allowed?????

Discussion in 'Message Board Help & Notices' started by Jim Haney, Oct 27, 2016.

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  1. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    This thread in the American Pocket watch forum has "for Sale ads at the bottom.

    http://mb.nawcc.org/showthread.php?137692-What-is-a-Railroad-Grade-Pocket-Watch&p=1066194#post1066194

    I reported it to the Moderator,and his response was ,

    [Quote=Dave Coatsworth}Hi Jim,
    Keith's blog is an NAWCC sponsored website. I think the ads that pop up at the bottom are the same ads that show up on the NAWCC website. So, no violation.
    ...Dave

    [/Quote]

    As a moderator for 5 years I know the NAWCC policy on "For Sale" ads.

    If this is allowed it sets a double standard, allowing "For Sale Ads", because they appear on the NAWCC web site.

    Rules can be bent, if they conflict with the NAWCC's income for the ad revenue,is that the bottom line?
     
  2. John Hubby

    John Hubby Principal Administrator
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    Jim, there has been no change in NAWCC or Message Board policy with regard to for sale ads, nor is there any conflict with that policy caused by the ads in Keith's blog link.

    Generally, the NAWCC has 'for sale' ads on all its websites. These include Google managed ads as well as banner ads placed by NAWCC member-owned businesses. The ad revenue is a significant source of income for support of NAWCC's web presence and general operations.

    >> The main NAWCC website has for sale ads including business advertisements for NAWCC member-owned businesses, announcements of Library surplus book sales, museum surplus sales, etc. NAWCC also publish a periodic auction summary listing links to current auctions in the U.S. and elsewhere.

    >> The NAWCC website that specializes in watch news ( https://watchnews.nawcc.org ) has 'for sale' ads of the same types as found on the main NAWCC website. Keith's blog is a feature of the watchnews website and the ads that are on the website are shown on all pages including Keith's blog.

    >> This Message Board has for sale ads in the banner of every page.

    >> The Message Board rules do not permit individual users to post for sale ads for their own goods, link to any direct active sale venue, or make references to such sales.

    As Dave explained, Keith is linking to the NAWCC watchnews website and not posting those ads himself. Any NAWCC website that a user here may link to will have ad content, will not be prohibited, and it not in violation of Message Board "for sale" ad policy.
     
  3. Markus Harris

    Markus Harris NAWCC Communications Director
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    Also, the Google Ad Sense advertisements in the ad slots at the bottom of the various NAWCC pages utilize Google's predictive ad targeting based on the recent Google searches and browser history of the particular viewer.

    Apparently, some individuals who viewed that blog post saw ads for Rolex watches, based on their recent browser history. Whereas I myself saw ads for a furniture warehouse and lawn care companies, based(again) on my recent browsing history.

    That's how Google Ad Sense placements work.
     
  4. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    #4 Jim Haney, Oct 28, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2016
    Markus,
    Yes, I understand how Google ad sense works that is why I see Rolex's "For Sale" when I click on the ads. So it is a trade off of the rules because they are considered advertising and exempt from the rules?

    I am sure the revenue is necessary to help the NAWCC's expenses and advertising is good income, however the dividing line is that the ads do show watches for sale but as long as the NAWCC is being paid for it, that makes it OK.

    Also because they are not listed on the MB directly but are ad links?
     
  5. Markus Harris

    Markus Harris NAWCC Communications Director
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    I don't see where any "rule" has been broken. At all.

    Keith Lehman posted A LINK to another website. One that is run by the NAWCC, but which does not exist on this Message Board, and which is an entirely separate entity than this message board.

    If a reader clicks on that link, they are then sent to a blog article on the other site. A site which has advertising at the bottom of the page.

    I am unaware of any rule that specifies NAWCC MB users cannot link to external sites which happen to have incidental advertising on them. If there is such a rule, then we literally have tens of thousands of links on this board right now that are in direct violation of it.

    Nor am I aware of any rule that states NAWCC websites, in general, cannot have incidental advertising on them.

    If a user posts material in the body of a post here which directly advertises some extraneous commercial venture that is not specifically endorsed by the NAWCC, then the task falls to the moderators and admins of this board regarding whether or not to allow it to stand or to remove it. If someone posts a spam link to this board, the sole purpose of which is to advertise some extraneous product or service not formally endorsed by the NAWCC, then again, it is the responsibility of the admins and moderators here to decide whether or not it violates this board's "no spam" rules and to deal with it appropriately.

    But in the case under discussion, an NAWCC employee has posted a link to an NAWCC-endorsed blog on a separate site that happens to have an ad module situated at the bottom of its pages. The ads aren't Keith's, no ad material (horological or otherwise) has been posted directly to this board, and the link points to an NAWCC sponsored website which technically makes that link the OPPOSITE of spam.

    Again: I see no violation of this board's rules whatsoever.
     
  6. Jim Haney

    Jim Haney Registered User
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    Markus.
    In my feeble mind when I click on a link and it shows me watches for sale, it is a rules violation.

    You can justify it by calling it advertising, but when I look at the ads there are watches for sale and I reason I am seeing them is because I clicked on a link on this MB. It is true that it is another site, and not our MB, however it ends up being a link to watches for sale.

    If it is allowed because it is advertising and we receive income for the ads so be it.

    Rule:
    Links, references, or discussions about active sales or auctions will be
    removed.
     
  7. Markus Harris

    Markus Harris NAWCC Communications Director
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    Mr. Haney,

    We have essentially zero control over which ads Google Ad Sense displays on sites other than this one.

    According to your logic, every link posted on this board to eBay - EVER - no matter if it's to an expired auction, or not - is a "rules violation" because it displays advertising that MIGHT display a watch for sale. Even if the only reason it displays an ad for a watch for sale is because YOUR browser history told it to display a watch ad, rather than an ad for something else (refrigerators, or whatever).

    As I said, there are numerous links on this message board right at this moment to sites that contain external advertising, the content of which is NOT always the same and which has no connection with the site itself, and is not chosen by the author of the site. That is most definitely the case in this instance.

    I fully accept Mr. Hubby's pronouncement on this matter. However, I will consider petitioning the ED about making an adjustment to the rules of this board to specifically accomodate situations of this sort.

    Regards,

    Markus Harris
     
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