First Clock - Wall Clock Beat Issues

Jerreson

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Ok, so I'm on mobile, forgive any typos.

I've never had a mechanical clock before, none the less ever set a beat on one before. I believe I understand the concept and relation between the pendulum, gravity, alignment and the escapement action etc. I just didn't understand how touchy and sensitive these can be.

I've got a wall clock that was given to me and I'm working on keeping it running. No real markings on it, just says made in Korea lol

Main issue, pendulum stops.

I've leveled the clock on the wall and have begun working on the crutch to balance things out.

What I've learned so far here. The crutch is friction not wire. I can nudge it past the ends to adjust it.

Just a hair nudge each time as this thing seems very very sensitive. I mean just a hair to much left or right throws it way off.

I've been working on getting it back into beat by eye and ear, equal distance left and right of midline for tick and tock during swing.

I slowly move it left or right until I hear the escapement action then carefully let gravity take it. If trips the other end I'll stop it, let it hang center then go the other direction and repeat. If both directions work and appear equal distance I know I'm pretty darn close to on beat.

Is that about right?

First it would run about 5 mins and stop, then about 30 before stopping.

I'm close I think because I've gotten it to run this last try for over an hour. I adjusted the moon dial and closed the door. The clock stopped after about 5 mins.

I opened the door and checked clearance of hands to glass and hands to face. It looks like the hour hand may have hit the rim of the left keyhole and stopped it. Not entirely sure but If it did it was a just a hair to close. I very lightly bent the hour hand up a smidge.

It's ticking away now. I was gonna attach a video but it's to large. May have to do one when on a computer.

Also note that when it is running it seems to be very accurate on time. It just went off for quarter hour and it was dead on.

Any pointers? Are these clocks really just this sensitive to position and such. No real wiggle room for error here.

Side Notes: This clock came from my uncle who has built quite a few very big and beautiful grandfather clocks. He said this one was in good shape just be sure it's dead level when I hang it etc. So I suspect it is clean and functional when adjusted right.

PXL_20210620_001754775.jpg PXL_20210620_001749084.jpg PXL_20210620_001744521.jpg PXL_20210620_001711475.jpg
 

Tim Orr

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The crutch is friction not wire. I can nudge it past the ends to adjust it.
Good evening, Jerreson!

I don't understand what that statement means. Can you explain. Pictures might be hard to do, but they would help a lot.

Best regards!

Tim Orr
 

Jerreson

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Maybe I've got the wrong terminology here.
The crutch is a friction crutch. The fork, and flat arm are all a single piece attached to the pallet arbor but not stationary on the arbor. It can rotate left or right on the arbor to change the center line of the pendulum leader.

Hope I've got that right.

So in setting the center line for this unit I was able to lightly tap the crutch in the direction needed to adjust it then test the swing and beat.

Here is a good pic from another post in these forums.

 

Tim Orr

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Good evening, Jerreson!

OK. In my experience, if a clock is so sensitive to the slightest shift of beat from one side to the other, it might be so underpowered that it is barely running at all. You say this is a wall clock, but the photos resemble a grandfather or tall case clock. I suppose that doesn't really matter.

When it does run, how far does the pendulum swing from the farthest right to the farthest left? Is it fully wound?

Best regards!

Tim
 

Jerreson

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It's a hanging clock, fairly tall. Not freestanding at all like a long case/grandfather clock.

It is wound as tight as I'm comfortable turning. It feels at a dead stop on the key so I didn't force any more turns. Pretty sure it's fully wound.

I need to get video uploaded, I am not sure where on the pendulum would best be measured for swing. The very bottom of the plumb or maybe the round part.

If going by the round part of the pendulum itself. Idk, maybe about 3-4 inches farthest left to right.

I can measure tomorrow more accurately.
It's actually still running. I've left it alone for the night to see if still running in the morning.

I used an app on my phone that's supposed to help set the beat for cuckoo clocks and that app is saying the beat is accurate and consistent. I recorded it for a bit in the app and saved the readings then did a second check against them and it reported the readings match.

The app is called "Cuckoo Calibration"
It's an Android app.

We'll see in the morning if it's still going.
 

bruce linde

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if that is truly a self regulating crutch, try moving the pendulum all the way to one side and then letting it swing and see if it settles into being in beat… that’s what they’re designed to do.

but, as Tim points out, by the time the power of the clock gets to the escape wheel and the pendulum there’s not very much left… by design… which means even the littlest bit of wear or friction (lack of oil?) will make the clock stop… even if it’s in beat.

If it weren’t just a restatement of reality, I would patent the following phrase I came up with: If you don’t know when it was last serviced, it needs it. :)
 

SuffolkM

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+1 for needing a service. When clocks are exceptionally touchy to get in beat, the overswing is usually pretty marginal. When the overswing is healthy, problems with setting the beat are far more run of the mill, and rarely cause much trouble. If the pallet depthing is out then it may just be riding the tips of the escape wheel, resulting in a very narrow pendulum swing. Perhaps you could video this for us to look at.

Another thing to check is how the pendulum leader interacts with the pendulum itself. This is a place where friction can be found (for example if the leader is twisted then it may be rubbing rather a lot - such a twist might have been done to try and close any side play or it might have been because someone was struggling to get it in beat in the past). Although most power problems are found in the train, check this area too if you have a moment.

Good luck
Michael
 

Jerreson

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I thought the crutch was supposed to self adjust as well by letting the pendulum go from either far left or right. That's what I had read.

Level the cabinet, then let the pendulum swing from the far corner to let the friction crutch align itself properly and set the beat. It didn't seem to work. I'd drop it and let it go for a few mins. Then I'd stop the pendulum and check where the tick and tock is.

It always seemed to be too far into the direction I dropped the pendulum from. Say dropped from far left. It would leave the tick far left and tock dead center as opposed to equal distance left and right of center line. So I just guessed this wasn't supposed to auto set.

I read plenty of guides online saying you can just move the crutch by hand. So I just adjusted it by hand.

Maybe I didn't wait long enough for the auto setting to work. I figured a few mins would have been enough for it to swing itself into proper position. Thinking about it now I bet aut set would have worked had I just waiting long enough and not stopped it to check. The momentum from the far left was probably too much and the auto set wouldn't align correctly until the swing came closer to where it should be for the clock. Just a guess.

The clock has been running all night but was 5 mins fast this morning so I stopped it, lowered the pendulum and restarted it.

As for servicing. I believe my uncle cleaned and serviced everything then just hung it up. He wasn't actually using the clock. It was just hung and not running.

I did find a small puddle in the bottom of the case after it ran for a while that was clearly lubricating oil. Light colored and definitely smelled like oil. I suspect 3in1 oil. Not sure where it came from but everything seems to be running smoothly. I can literally watch the minute hand just casually scrolling across the face. Very smooth it seems. Watching the gears turn looks shiny and clean but looks can be deceiving.

Still not at a computer to upload a video sorry.
 
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bruce linde

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None of this really matters until the movement is disassembled and serviced. Without disassembling you cannot tell if pivot holes or pivots or worn or bent, check the end shake and main springs, etc.

It’s like finding a car that’s been sitting for who knows how many years and expecting it to run just because you put air in the tires. If the oil has dried up it’s not gonna run. If the spark plugs are gunked up it’s not gonna run.

If you wanted to run, get it serviced
 

Jerreson

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I didn't ask directly but the way he was talking when he gave it to us, it was fully serviced and ready to go. He offered us one of his large grandfather clocks but we didn't have a way to haul it home lol. I'm going to borrow a truck and go get one I think. They are beautiful clocks.

Before I had this one running and before I learned what a friction crutch was, I actually thought the crutch was loose or damaged because it would move past the ends when pushed. I thought ok probably has a set screw to tighten in there.

So I removed the crutch and it was attached to the pallet arbor but could rotate around the arbor. Clearly not broken and was obviously part of its function. So I knew for sure at this point it was a friction crutch. While I had it out I did see the pin holes were very clean and round looking. The teeth on the escapement wheel were all clean and all looked the same, no obvious damaged teeth, wear, gaps etc.

Like I said, this is the first mechanical clock I've ever had. So I'm learning things as I go.

It's running solid right now. So I'm gonna let it run and see how it behaves for now. I don't expect it actually needs any servicing at this point. It was more of the learning curve on my part.
 

Tim Orr

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Good afternoon, Jerreson!

It doesn't look to me, from your video, as though the excursion of the pendulum from side to side is too small. It doesn't LOOK that way. Things Bruce and Michael have said are very true. Do we have reason to believe that your uncle is a skilled clock repairman? If he used 3-In-1, that would be the wrong oil, almost certainly. If there was a puddle of oil in the bottom of the case, it was almost certainly not oiled properly, probably over-oiled.

Many – but not all – escapement verges have friction clutches. Nor are all of them are self-adjusting. In fact, I would venture that most are not. Self-adjusting systems are actually a bit rare, and often, very tricky to get set up to operate properly – especially as they age.

There is friction on some verge arbors to make it possible to adjust the verge, but enough so that it won't move on its own after adjustment. Not the same as a self-adjusting one.

I have seen clocks that hadn't been run in a long time have oil that was gummy, but that "loosened up" with running enough to run again after a few days. Not well, but enough to run. Frankly, yours sounds like this syndrome. As Bruce says, if we don't know when it was serviced, it almost certainly needs it. If it was serviced then not run for some time, especially a long time, like a year, it probably needs service again.

Lots more pictures would help. These will probably necessitate things like removing the hands and dial, etc., but without the ability to observe, we can only guess.

Best regards!

Tim
 

Jerreson

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Yea I'm not sure what the oil used was, it definitely smelled like lubricating oil. I can't tell you 100% that it was 3-1 oil for sure. I also don't 100% know his skill level here for the mechanicals, I know he has built grandfather clocks by hand but good woodworking isn't the same as good mechanical work. I do suspect he is capable in both areas though.

I'll let it run until it stops again and see where we are at. If it stops because the spring is done, I'll wind it and let it go, otherwise I'll strip it down and follow guides to service it. Just don't have time to do it right now.
 

Jerreson

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I'm considering the original issue resolved. It is running now and seems to be in beat. Only time will tell lol
 

Mike Phelan

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I also don't 100% know his skill level here for the mechanicals, I know he has built grandfather clocks by hand but good woodworking isn't the same as good mechanical work. I do suspect he is capable in both areas though.
... but if this guy has actually built clocks his mechanical expertise has to be good, surely?
 

JTD

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I know he has built grandfather clocks by hand but good woodworking isn't the same as good mechanical work.

... but if this guy has actually built clocks his mechanical expertise has to be good, surely?
I think he meant that his uncle built the case, as he mentions good woodworking skills. Or have I missed something?

JTD
 

Jerreson

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Correct, he has built rather large and beautiful grandfather clocks. I suspect the timepieces themselves are a kit and preassembled. He does have plenty of mechanical skill though so I expect he has more then enough knowledge to tear down and service them. He is into tube radios right now lol. Tearing them apart and fixing them.

He is a distant relation so I don't have much background here or a consistent relationship with him I just know I've seen the work first hand in the past and seen the finished products. I do believe in his abilities here. You don't spend all that time and labor to build a clock case then just throw a kit timepiece in and not learn how to maintain it lol that's just not normal in my book.

He tried to get me to take one home, I'm going to find out if he was really serious here and borrow a truck to pick one up.
 

bruce linde

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again, if you don't know when it was last serviced, movements need to be disassembled, inspected and serviced... or you risk shortening lifespan through increased wear due to preventable issues.

also, there's another thread running where people are talking about seeing clocks come through their shops where previous (and supposed to be experienced) repairers did WTFWTT (what the f were they thinking) repairs. experience certainly helps increase the probability of appropriate repairs but is not a guarantee.
 

Mike Phelan

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I think he meant that his uncle built the case, as he mentions good woodworking skills. Or have I missed something?

JTD
That makes sense. For me, when I have built a clock it means that I have built everything, otherwise I'd say I built a clock case.
Might be the difference between UK/USA terminology, like the bathroom!
 

Jerreson

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Yes back on topic. Im on the process of tearing it down.

Hermle 1051-030A movement
The movement is covered in cat hair and is very oily. Greasy to touch.

I'm taking a ton of photos and going to tear down carefully and separate parts into bags labeled for their sections to help with reassembly.

Left spring gear train which I think is the half and quarter chime

Middle spring gear train .. time train

Right spring gear train .. hourly chime

So putting back together won't be bad.
I'm more concerned about finding bad bushings or wallowed out pivots. I won't have the ability to fix those.

Any advice on easy unwinding of the springs?
Any advice on cleaning?

Good bath in carb cleaner, re assemble and oil ?
 

Jerreson

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What is the wheel circled in red called?
I accidentally bent the pin. Ugh...

Trying to reassemble was the worst part here. It appears that's the only pin I busted. I had all three trains back in place I just didn't realize I bent that one until too late. I've torn it down again. I'll be absolutely amazed if it still works when in done with it. I know I'll need to replace that part though before reassembly.

So anyone tell me what it is called so I can look it up. Thanks.

PXL_20210623_020014317~2.jpg
 

Jerreson

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Thank you, I can't believe I bent it. Was late at night and I was being stupid. Shouldn't work on finite things when tired lol.
 

Jerreson

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I grabbed another entire movement from Ebay. It says
"A Howard Miller Clock Co 1051-030A" it is same gearing as mine, at 45CM. My understanding is these are still Hermle movements, same exact parts and design. Is that correct?

I would like to pick/pull between the two to re-build a good unit.

Does anyone have any tips on getting these suckers into their holes when re-assembling.

I was using the nuts to slowly bolt the plates together as I went but it was a nightmare. That is how I bent a pin, I just didn't realize it wasn't seated into the pivot and bent it...
 

JTD

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I was using the nuts to slowly bolt the plates together as I went but it was a nightmare. That is how I bent a pin, I just didn't realize it wasn't seated into the pivot and bent it...
I have been trying to follow your trials and troubles and have been wondering what this 'pin' was, as there didn't seem to be one in the part you indicated. Now it sounds to me as if you broke the pivot (not a pin) because the pivot was not seated in the hole when you tightened the plates.

Is that right or have I misunderstood?

JTD
 

Jerreson

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Sorry that is correct.
I mean the Pivot

Would it be correct that the "pin" is the pivot on the end of the arbor.

I keep calling the holes they insert into a "pivot" which is where confusion is coming from. I suppose those are "peg holes"
 

JTD

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Would it be correct that the "pin" is the pivot on the end of the arbor.
No, a pin, if attached to a wheel, would trip or turn something when it hits it. The end of the shaft is the pivot. You can also use a pin to secure the hands or the plates.

I keep calling the holes they insert into a "pivot" which is where confusion is coming from. I suppose those are "peg holes"
No, the holes are just holes, not peg holes. You may have read of 'pegging out' a hole, which is a way of cleaning a hole using pegwood.

JTD
 

Jerreson

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Ok thanks, trying to get clear on terminology here. Makes it easier to communicate.
It's a shame that unit won't be here until like the 28th. I want to work on finishing this up.

Is Dawn dish soap, nylon brush and a low temp oven to dry a decent method here?

Essentially degreasing everything (Except the springs) If I have the right terms here they are barrel springs because they are enclosed in a barrel is that correct?

I left those off to the side and cleaned everything else with dawn and hot water, then used a paper towel to dry, then blew off the pieces with air (remove any towel lint and more water) then into the oven on convection at lowest setting which I think was 170F

I took them out when they were too hot to handle bare handed and let them cool. They felt nice and clean at this point.

any tips/advice there?
 

JTD

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They felt nice and clean at this point.
They may, or may not, be. Did you peg out the holes? Even if the parts are clean, before you reassemble the movement, you need to look and see whether or not other things are needed, in particular bushings.

If I have the right terms here they are barrel springs because they are enclosed in a barrel is that correct?
Yes.

JTD
 

Jerreson

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I didn't spend a lot of time or attention pegging out the holes. This was more of a learning process and experiment to see if I could manage to tear it down and put it back together. Which failed when I bent a pivot. Aside from that it was easy to do. Just re-assembly was a nightmare. I was being to harsh with it during re-assembly. I knew better but was stupidly working on it late night after a long day and fighting a migraine headache on top of it. No way was I able to think clearly for a delicate task.

When the other movement comes in I plan to
1. Strip it down
2. Clean and degrease
3. Peg out the holes
4. Good rinsing
5. Low temp oven drying

Then I'll be re-assembling with the best pieces available and move into oiling the pivots. I do plan to put just a smidge on each of the wheels teeth to have a bit of lubrication there. It won't take much just like the pivots wont take much etc.

Bushings are different beast. I get the gist of that though. If the hole is out of round, you fit it for a bushing and let the pivot ride in the new bushing as opposed to the original hole. Makes sense. All I can do is hope there is no need for bushings because I don't have any or even a press to drill and press them in etc.
 

JTD

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I do plan to put just a smidge on each of the wheels teeth to have a bit of lubrication there

Please don't put oil on the wheels. If you wish, you can put a tiny drop of oil on the escape wheel, but not the others.

JTD
 

Jerreson

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ok I did a bit more digging there and see the reasoning for avoiding oil on the gears. Thanks.
 

Jerreson

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No oil on the general wheels but I'll put a tiny dap of it on the pallet faces. This will also add some to the escape wheel as it operates. Since the pallets do slide in and out of the teeth there is more friction wear there than on the other wheels in general.

I see the general consensus is the gears in general don't need oiled as they are meshed together precisely enough to avoid the sliding of teeth into each other. They will ride off each other. So not very much friction there. Also skipping the oil there means no gunk and dust to collect and cause further wear etc.
 

Dick Feldman

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Thirty-four posts on this issue and nobody has mentioned that the most expedient solution may be for you to replace that movement with a new, (almost identical) movement with the manufacturer’s upgrades and a warranty.

You have a considerable amount of time invested plus the purchase of a used parts movement so far. All of the fiddling around thus far has a low chance of making the clock movement run again. You have not considered or attempted to sequence the chime and strike trains. That, in itself could be an insurmountable hurdle. Parts movements offered for sale on the auction sites are just that. Those have been run till they are worn out and some parts are useable. Mostly they are worth only the price of the scrap metal.

Next to the part number on the rear plate of your movement will be a code that gives the manufacture year as well as the rated pendulum length. Those are important numbers. That manufacture date should be an indicator of the age/shape of the movement. Hermle movements have a life span of about 20-25 years. After that time, wear will usually (meaning always) make them unreliable (and will make the beat unstable which is where you started). All of the cleaning, lubricating and adjusting on this planet will not solve wear problems. Your chances of having found the holy grail of clock movements are slim to none. Your first assumption (and the first advice given by participants on this board) should have been that this movement is worn. The most common problem with old clock movements is lack of power due to wear due to long operation. If you do not address the wear problem properly, the movement will simply not be reliable---ever.

I am sorry but I do not believe your determination and interest will suffice for the knowledge and experience it will take to get that movement operating again.

Consider seriously replacing that movement with a new Hermle movement. That will be within the limits of your capabilities and give a reliable clock with far fewer headaches in the long run.

JMHO

Dick
 
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shutterbug

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It sounds like you have two movements already, so you may be able to make one good one from them. When wiggling the wheels back into the movement, you don't want too much pressure on them. Start low and work your way up, looking for the one wheel that is tight against the plate and wiggling it into it's hole. Then go on to the next one and do the same. A rubber band around the movement might help. Use the nuts to hold things together, but don't screw them very tight until you have all the wheels in place. Slow and easy is the way to go. You'll have all of the wheels in the bottom plate to start with. It's easier to work with the front plate down during assembly and the top of the movement toward you. Take a good look at the pivots too. They might be plated and you don't want them starting to deteriorate.
 

Dick Feldman

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All of the discussion about plated pivots, servicing, adjusting, lubricating and such may be for nothing. Those are maintenance functions and probably the time has passed for maintenance on either or both of the movements you have. If the part numbers on the two movements do not not match, some or most of the time train will be incorrect. One mismatched wheel is enough to either stop the clock or to make regulation impossible. The tooth count between the center arbor and the verge must be the same. Otherwise you will be introducing error into the system. Error in that the original pendulum will be too long, dragging on the bottom of the case when the clock hands run fast or you will not be able to speed the hands up when the pendulum is at it's shortest configuration. This is only one of the things I mentioned as introducing problems innocently.
You already have had a taste of problems putting the movement together. If ever you get the movement plates closed, you will be faced with the timing of the chime and strike trains. That likely will take multiple tear downs and re assemblies. Every time that comes apart and goes back together, you stand a good chance of bending or breaking a pivot again.
You are dealing with an original movement that is likely worn to the point that it cannot give good service. You are using another worn out movement as back up parts. The second movement may be a poor source for parts, at least in the time train. As you continue, you will likely introduce more factors that will make the clock inoperable. There is a long string of events that must happen all of the time to make the clock go. Every time another flaw is introduced to the mix, proper trouble shooting will become more complicated. One limiting factor is enough to stop the show. Two limiting factors are more than twice as hard to find and cure. That situation is bound to be magnified with each trial and error attempt.
My suggestion is to first make sure there is sufficient power to all three trains. That will be the most likely cause of the movement or movements not running. The next suggestion is to make sure you are dealing with all apples. Introduce one part of one orange into the mix and you will be doomed.
I know a lot of things about surgery but I would not ever attempt to remove my own appendix. You are probably out of your league trying to repair those movements. The quality of much of the advice given so far is not up to standards.
Doesn't all of this make replacement with a new movement with a warranty sound a bit more plausible?
Again, my opinion is based on many years experience or maybe bad experiences.
D
 
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Jerreson

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First and foremost this is not a livelihood for me. This is not even a hobby. This is just something I'm doing for fun.

I on occasion like to tinker and dabble in new things, educate myself a little here and there and I've never seen anything wrong with that.

My line of work actually requires this trait and I'm good at what I do, just like I'm sure most of the guys here are good at what they do.

If you feel it's a waste of time or something than, you're more than welcome to ignore this thread entirely.

I've noticed quite a lot in these forums where people who may be doing the same thing as me are being hounded and barked at left and right from people arguing amongst themselves on what is right, wrong, good vs bad advice etc.

I'm surprised there are still newcomers hitting these forums even for basic educational things given the responses others receive.

(Now to be clear there is a gentleman above who has actually read and responded to some of my direct questions. I'm on mobile so not scrolling up to grab a name right now. But I'm thankful for his responses.)

As you said.
"my opinion is based on many years experience or maybe bad experiences."

Your opinion is based on years of both good and bad experiences. The key word being "experiences" here. This is also the point I'm aiming to make.

if I wanted to just straight up buy a movement and have a working clock then I would have bought a new movement. What would I learn by doing that? What comes from that experience. How to set a beat maybe, or how to oil it in 4-5 years or so etc. What fun is that.

Everything discussed above for cleaning, maintenance, and such isn't a waste at all as it was to further my own education of the terminology and methods used. Since I wanted to know, I asked & I am thankful for all the answers. Actually unless I misread something, some of the direct questions I asked are yet to even be answered. But that is ok, I'll end up asking for verification of things again I'm sure.

There isn't always a single "correct" way to do something either. So you may see some bad advice above but in their experiences their advice could have worked just fine for them as your methods do for you. I don't know myself, that's why I'm here, asking things. Multiple opinions, methods, results etc. Good to get answers from all angles.

Also Just for clarification, I've bought an exact replacement for the movement. It is used yes, but an exact replacement. It hasn't arrived yet, so I don't actually have two movements yet. And yes I even matched it down to being geared for a 45cm pendulum. Do I have that correct. The movement is geared for a specific pendulum length. I mean that does make sense to me logically.

My logic was buying an exact replacement means the internal gears should be same in both units. So picking and pulling to build a working movement from both should be feasible. Again, I'm new here. I could be wrong. But that's why I'm here posting, and asking things.

Also note that I do understand and respect that people do this for a living, it takes skill, and it would seem some time and patience (pun intended haha). But these are public forums and with people from all over the place posting, keep in mind not everyone is trying to achieve the same end goals. I'm not looking to do this for a living, just like someone else posting may be.

I'm looking to learn how the movements work, how to maintain them, clean them etc. and maybe hang a working wall clock when all is said and done.

If I can say "yea, I tore it down, and rebuilt the movements myself" that's pretty cool to me otherwise I'll say "yea, I tore it down once to see if I could fix it. Didn't go as planned so I bought a new movement for it."

If it runs for 20+ years when I'm done, even better.

That isn't going to hurt anyone here either way.

Side note: I've been up and going since yesterday morning. Quite a long time now so if anything above makes no sense, sorry. Lack of sleep over here lol.
 

shutterbug

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BTW, your circled in red thing is the stop wheel for the chimes. I'm not sure if that was answered above ;)
 

Jerreson

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I've actually decided not to tear down the other movement when it arrives. Not yet at least. I'm going to look it over well, oil the pivots and reinstall it into the clock case and see how it runs.

Might get lucky who knows. Time will tell.
 

shutterbug

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I think that's wise, because it's not a great clock to learn on. I'd encourage you to get a couple of less complicated movements to play with. Take them apart, put them back together, and do that a few times until you are comfortable with it. Then try putting in some bushings. After you feel comfortable with doing that, you could probably make the leap to your three train clock and have a pretty good chance of success.
 

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