Finer & Nowland Cylinder movement

Discussion in 'European & Other Pocket Watches' started by Omexa, Sep 22, 2014.

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  1. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi, I recently purchased a movement by "Finer & Nowland", it is in sad condition; Broken Dial caused by the Gold Case being ripped off, a broken Center Arbor and something wrong with the Cylinder Staff. I have another Cylinder movement by "Thomas Walker", London that ticks very nicely; it has a Brass Escape Wheel. The Finer & Nowland appears to have a Steel Escape Wheel. Do these type of Staffs have replaceable Tampons? Regards Ray
     

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  2. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    Only the female ones .... :excited:

    Finer & Nowland of London was originally between Thomas Finer and Thomas Nowland. They established a business in 5 Hatton Garden in 1794 and are then listed in the 1808 trade directory as trading at 48 High Holborn, London as jewellers and watch makers. They also appear in the 1822-3 trade directory in the Watch and Clock Makers section at the same address but have added that they are also chronometer makers. The business continued until 1856.


    I think your serial number is 3735? I have found references to three complete pocket watches - #4166 halmarked 1825, #4387 hallmarked 1828 and #4823 hallmarked 1840; those show a very low production volume of maybe 80 per year, which suggests a date of about 1820 for yours - and that looks about right for your movement.
     
  3. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Ray,

    The staffs in English cylinders are different from the Swiss ones. They do have tampons, but the pivots are usually separate and inserted into the tampons in tapers, so rather easier to replace. Do you have access to Gazeley's book on escapements?

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  4. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi Martin, the Serial Number is 2735. I found a list of the best Watchmakers supplying Chronometers to the Admiralty. Regards Ray
     

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  5. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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    Hi Graham, I do not have access to Gazely's book. I purchased a number of years ago lots of pivots with taper, all I have to do is find them; at the time of purchase I did not know what they were for but thought that they may come in handy at some stage. Why one Escape Wheel Brass (Thomas Walker) and another Steel (Finer & Nowland)? Would this have to do with what the Cylinder Staff is made of (Ruby or Steel)? Regards Ray
     
  6. gmorse

    gmorse Registered User
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    Hi Ray,

    The mix of materials was probably down to the preferences of the individual watchmakers; the best English ruby cylinders sometimes had gold escape wheels.

    Regards,

    Graham
     
  7. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    #7 Burkhard Rasch, Sep 23, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 31, 2017
    I´d also be curious about the cylinder material.AFAIk the materials were allways matched one hard with one soft,the hard material reserved for the cylinder itself.So I whish You luck,maybe it's a ruby cylinder!
    Best
    Burkhard
     
  8. MartyR

    MartyR Moderator
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    The serial number would suggest a much earlier date, but it now becomes obvious that Finer & Nowland must have made many more watches in the earlier years than the 1825-40 period covered by the numbers I quoted. I wouldn't put your movement earlier than 1810, and I still suspect that 1820 is closer :)

    That Admiralty document is a great find! I don't think it's a list of suppliers to the Admiralty; I believe it's a list compiled by the Admiralty of chronometers submitted to Kew Observatory for testing, and I think it's maybe a potential shopping list for the Admiralty. Teir Lordships seem to be checking that the chronometers are submitted by the makers themselves before they make a buying decision! It says a lot about how the Admiralty operated in terms of buying chronometers, and it adds a lot of weight to the authorship of those. I notice three of the big names of the time in the document - Charles Frodsham, Parkinson & Frodsham, Arnold & Dent - and I'm surprised to see John Frodsham there (I didn't know he had submitted to Kew). Apart from those and Thomas Hewitt, I don't know the others.

    Right at the bottom there is an interesting name - Roskell & Bishop (?) - which Dave might find on his travels around the Roskell family :)

    Where did you find the document? The complete ledger could provide a walth of research material!
     
  9. Omexa

    Omexa Registered User
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  10. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Hi Ray- Well over three years old this thread, but for me good news. I have been having a few problems trying to find out more on this firm, but of course great fun. I thought if I put a few of the interesting bits on this thread more people would look at it and hopefully send in the numbered Finer & Nowland details.Best Allan.

    IMG_4684 (2).JPG IMG_4685 (2).JPG IMG_4686 (2).JPG IMG_4687 (2).JPG IMG_4683 (1).JPG
     
  11. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    [​IMG] Thought this might help.Allan.
     

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  12. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    I noticed above Martin your remark on Roskell & Bishop. I left it out of the above because I could not read it, plus I think we would have found the firm Roskell & Bishop by now? So I went back to the original document, and this is what it says.

    Roskell 8, Bishop 2, Goff 1, Norris 1, eiffe 1, Munster is 900.

    Why this note is written there leaves plenty of room for speculation- it could be they were late entries, or disgarded?? Hope you find this has interesting has I do, pity the numbers were not given except for Munster. Best Allan.
     
  13. Allan C. Purcell

    Allan C. Purcell Registered User
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    Did you press that button again??
     

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