Family heirloom pocket watch

[quadchris8390]

I was handed down a pocket watch given to my ancestor Oliver Ellsworth (Framer of The Constitution and 3rd Chief Justice of The Supreme Court). Story has it that this watch was given to him by Napoleon. There is no paperwork attached to it and they did not keep records of gifts given to government until 1966. I have had it looked at by several watch people and they can not date it nor tell me much about it. I am attaching a couple of pictures so if anyone can tell me where to start with some horology or even if this is something that looks familiar to them. There are a few markings which did not show up well in the pictures but they are marked: 1647 on the case backing, Langlois, Aparis, and Avano. I don't have anything other than my family story and proof in the history books of Oliver being with Napoleon. Any help would be greatly appreciated on how to start looking this up or what they may know would be greatly appreciated. Thanks. Chris Ellsworth

 

[Squite]

Langlois A Paris - Langois in Paris, that is, the name of the retailer (jeweler), and maybe the maker, but maybe not. So this should be of French origin, at the very least. The 'Avano' may actually be 'Avance', which could be a mark locating the arbor used for winding the watch, as it appears that the arbor for setting the time is in the front.

Watch movements of this style in general (I can not comment on any details as the photos are of far too poor a quality) could be anywhere from the 1750-1850 time period.

 

[quadchris8390]

Yes, I have the original arbor for it as well. The time period you mentioned would put it at the time of Napoleon and my grandfather. Hard part is just going to prove it.

 

[Squite]

The time period is way too broad at this stage to say anything conclusive, but even if you were to get an exact year of manufacture (which you almost certainly won't), you would still have no way of connecting it to Napoleon without very specific documentation (like a letter that mentions it). Even then it would fall under great scrutiny. If I were you, I would keep it as a family heirloom no matter what you find, and leave it at that.

 

[quadchris8390]

Let me see if I can get some better pictures on here. I apologize. They were taken with my iphone. I appreciate all of your input. It will definitely be kept in the family.

 

[Roland Ranfft]

Hi Chris,

I can't make out anything but the dial style from your photos. It is typical for around 1760, but consider that some watchmakers were rather conservative, and produced a particular design their whole live long. But there are many more details indicating the production time, and with all together it is often possible to date even such an old watch within a range of 10 to 20 years. But this would require better pics, and some informations about materials and dimensions.

However, I doubt the watch was ever in touch with Napoleon. Keep in mind that he was an insane loud-mouth who didn't pay personally for things he presented. So such present watches were the best obtainable from the best makers. Moreover he was likely not yet born when your watch was made.

Such tales are often told about really old family heirlooms, and much more frequently by sellers. I have still Tutanchamun's automatic on stock, and nobody wants it.

Regards, Roland Ranfft

 

[Squite]

Is it a quartz movement, Roland?

 

[quadchris8390]

Roland, I appreciate the comments. I am working on getting better pictures. The ones I took before were with my iphone and obvious clarity issues. I tried my wife's high dollar canon with a 24-105 zoom L lense and couldn't get in close enough. Maybe she knows how to work the thing better. As far as it belonging to Napoleon, you are right that everybody has stories. I have my own and that is why I am trying to find provenance. U.S. Gov. didn't start documenting gifts until 1966. If you google Oliver Ellsworth and Napoleon, you will see that Oliver was in contact with him and Napoleon held him in high regards. That is why John Adams sent him to France was to thwart the possibility of war. Without serial numbers and books associating the watch to Napoleon, all we do have is a story and my family lineage. So how does one prove anything in that time period? It's all hearsay....

 

[RON in PA]

Does your wife's camera have a Macro feature (flower symbol). Use the macro setting with no flash and a piece of white paper as a backround.

 

[Roland Ranfft]

Hi Chris,

If you google Oliver Ellsworth and Napoleon, you will see that Oliver was in contact with him and Napoleon held him in high regards.

But this information can't be transfered to a watch, disregarding how reliable it is. Already the present photos indicate that it is either a pretty normal watch from the mid 18th century or a rather oldfashioned watch from the late 18th century, Napoleon's time though. And both makes it unlikely to be a gift from him.

It was not only my vague assumtion that Napoleon only presented the best avalable; such gift watches I've seen in the literature, and occasionally in museums are actually the best available. Of course even museum items are not always legit, but reducing it to 10% being legit, this doesn't change their quality and probable age.

However, better photos would be still usefull to nail down the birth year more reliably.

Regards, Roland Ranfft