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Fake dials?

Louis Christina

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Is there going to be a thread where fake dials can be posted?
IMO, if it wasn't contemporaneous to the watch's production date or near the production date, as would be the case for O'hara and Ferguson dials, it's a fake.
I hope that this project can move forward, the fake dials that are flooding the market are a serious problem. i just purchased a fake dial on ebay, I did ask the seller prior to purchasing the dial if it was a modern reproduction, the seller replied that he thought it was an antique dial, upon receiving the watch, I instantly saw that it was a fake, I sent the watch back and the seller agreed to pay the shipping both ways, he lost about $25.00 plus his eBay listing fees.
 

Louis Christina

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This is the dial, sorry about the poor quality of the picture.

http://files.me.com/louchristina/7a4uy1
 
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terry hall

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hi louis,
the other thread appears locked...


There is one point and you are sorta making it...

these fake dials are all over ebay... but we can't 'link' to them because of the MB rules... even snagging the image is not quite up to 'snuff'... :mad:

these are current, available, and IMHO, don't help the hobby

Hell, one of these sellers is actually using the Melamine term for their dials....

i doubt many of us would want to purchase these darn things to expose them....
 

Brian C.

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Since some people seem to be offended by the term "fake dials", could we all agree on the term, "flea market dials"?
 

Kevin W.

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Or non pc replacement dials.
 

Jon Hanson

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Is there going to be a thread where fake dials can be posted?
.
I hope that this project can move forward, the fake dials that are flooding the market are a serious problem. i just purchased a fake dial on ebay, I did ask the seller prior to purchasing the dial if it was a modern reproduction, the seller replied that he thought it was an antique dial.
I rest my case!
 

Kent

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Since some people seem to be offended by the term "fake dials", could we all agree on the term, "flea market dials"?
I don't agree with the term "flea market dials." I believe that terms like replacement or reproduction dials are usable and don't have negative connotations.

I feel that it is perfectly acceptable to manufacture these dials for profit. I also feel that the use of the dials on watches is perfectly acceptable and I would expect that watches are, or will be, offered for sale bearing these dials.

We would all like the watches to have original dials. Unfortunately, dials get smashed, horribly chipped and broken. Melamine and painted dials simply self-destruct. Although purists (who should be respected for their desire to maintain the originality of watches) may not like it, people are going to set aside badly damaged dials and put replacement dials on watches. In fact, some (myself included) will set aside a dial that is not so badly damaged and put a replacement dial on a watch simply because they like it that way. And, some people will put replacement dials on watches to make a better profit than they would make if they tried to sell the watches with the original damaged dials.

I'll be the first to admit that the practice of putting replacement dials on watches should be discouraged. But, there are shades of gray in many situations of dial replacement and there is a limit to how strong the discouragement can be before it becomes self-defeating.

There is a real problem when watches bearing replacement dials are offered for sale without mention of the fact that the dial is a replacement. But, there are shades of gray here also. Dealers who knowingly omit the fact are just plain dishonest. So are dealers, who aren't familiar enough with watches to know the difference, who claim that the watch is "all original"* without really knowing that it is (or is not). Then, there are the dealers, who aren't familiar enough with watches to know the difference, who are only trying to sell a watch - they shouldn't be blamed at all.

This problem needs to be addressed, but the resolution isn't likely to be accomplished by applying derogatory names to the dials.


* Lately, some dealers use the term "all original" to describe a watch having all original parts, but not necessarily from the same watch - but that's another subject.
 

Jon Hanson

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Jon Hanson

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where is Tom Terrific when we need him--an invalid file on his home page
 

Tom McIntyre

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Jon, the link is working fine. Perhaps your connection to the Internet is acting up again. Here are a few of the items from your archive page.
 

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Jon Hanson

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thank you so much for assistance and being on the ball

Marion dial article:???::???::???::???:?
 

BILL KAPP

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Fake,replacement,Original,correct,aftermarket,flea market,transition,rare, mismatch, etc are terms that are interpreted differently by everyone!

Trying to determine the motives of sellers/owners or whether or not they are responsible for abberations is also futile.

In the interest of staying positive, wouldn't it be better to post dials that we know to be correct?

So many come to this board to learn and rely on the information they get here.

Thus if we show examples of dials and say that this is what we expect a dial of a certain company to look like in a certain model or time period and that any deviation should be viewed with caution/skepticism, wouldn't we be performing an educational service and positive learning experience?

That alone would be a huge undertaking!

happy hunting,
 

Jon Hanson

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If they aren't original, they are FAKE! This term, FAKE, is used everywhere in collectibles--let's call a spade a spade!

It is important to understand the credibility issue here for collectors, as well as the assoc.
 

49stude63

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If you can call Swiss Fakes, fake why not call low quality dials fake since they are cheap knock-offs of real dials. You really expose this hobby to a lot of ill will from people being "screwed" by less than honest sellers. Maybe people are ok with that, I don't fall into that group and at best as a forum, you should help new users to be aware of these knock-off fakes, to help watch collectors you should always be in the side of originality. If there are no options but to use a knock-off dial then that is the choice but I certainly wouldn't want to spend top dollar for a watch and find when it arrives it has a fake dial.
 

Louis Christina

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Hi Kent,
I carefully read your post and I have to say that I respectfully differ with your preceptive.
I believe that they are detrimental to the hobby, now and in the long term.
I often see eBay buyers paying ridiculous prices for watches with these dials, to call these dials replacement dials, IMO, is giving them, indirectly, accreditation. To me, a replacement dial would be one that could have been ordered from the factory or taken off another watch and would be identical to the original dial in every way.
A reproduction, to me, infers that the dial was made, substantially to the same quality and standards that the original dials were made. For instance, it is my understanding that one could or may still be able to have a reproduction dial made in Switzerland, where the dial is made as it would have been made 100 years ago.

People are using these dials to make more money on a watch, through deception. I personally do not have any problem calling them fakes, it may not be very nice sounding, but from what I can see, more harm than good is being caused by these items.
Louis
 
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Kent

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Jon Hanson

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Free fake dials!

FAKE is FAKE is FAKE!

And, the games continue!:mad:
 

Jon Hanson

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Actually THESE MANNY DIALS are SWISS FAKES as he had them made in Switzerland!

hahahaha:p
 

Louis Christina

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I would consider those dials "fake" dials. Are they causing the same level of monetary loss to new collectors that some of the fancy dial "fakes" are causing, most likely not.
It's my opinion that these dials are worthless and should be avoided at all cost. It's a free country and everyone can do as they please, but I can't see how any of this activity can be a good thing for our hobby, it just creates more uncertainty within the hobby.
Consider what Rolex collectors must go through with all of the "fake" Rolex watches in circulation, I doubt that they are gracious enough to call these watches, "reproductions".

Meant country,not company... although it's a blurred line!
 
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Jon Hanson

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"free company"--NO, I' say BAD company! :eek:

The bottom line is folks need to learn English, correct watch terms/definitions and common sense collecting. Certainly no FAKE dial can be termed a "Gem of the First Water!" :cool:
 

49stude63

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Louis I would have to agree with you, if you can't come to terms with the term fake (cheap, poor and low quality reproduction dials) then the hobby has an issue. Look at other hobbies car, radio, coin collecting and there is great pain to point out fakes or low quality parts that hurt the investment quality. As mentioned before show the original and show a poor quality version (fake) mention time frames and comment on the better quality reproductions (not replacements, oem made are replacements). Tips and pictures to help discern the good from the bad and in some cases the ugly. :eek:
 

Larry S

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I would consider any dial not authorized, commissioned, contracted, licensed or manufactured directly by the original manufacturer....a non original dial.

Larry
 

terry hall

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one obstacle(spell?) that is faced....

Images at times cannot show just what makes these dials what they are... originals included....

there is NOTHING like examining IN HAND...
 

Jon Hanson

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might be better than doing nothing, pointing out these fake dials

some of the fellas can do side shots (Larry DS) for further explantions

eventually newbies, confused by these FAKES, will get out and run into other collectors for assistance in detection at chapter meetings or shows
 

Jon Hanson

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LStratton

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What do you call metal dials that have been refinished that do not resemble the original? Is this a problem or don't people care about metal dials? I have never had a dial refinished and I think this to be totally unacceptable. Just wondering if anyone else feels the same as I do about metal dials.
 

Jon Hanson

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Amen--they are mostly horrific!

However, Waltham offered an option for a metal dial on their Premier Maximus watches for an added cost of $3.50 (or was it $10., I forget).
 
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terry hall

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Lyle,

I don't like em either and class them with the painted current manufactured dials...

but to tag on to what Jon said about waltham... and factory metal dials

Illinois also offered a metal dial in the 20's... and examples do show today... and i believe they were also cataloged

Believe they touted 'visibility' in low light conditions...


I also am aware of 'material' dials from Hamilton that were metal and I have had a couple over the years... but Jon had a hoard of them at one time

I think south bend also offed a metal dial :???:
 

Jon Hanson

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Yes, Illinois lists metal dials in their catalogues--BUT, yuck!

There are also PLENTY of 12s Elgin, Howard (12 & 14) Waltham and Illinois metal dials! Some Hamilton dials are quite fancy and decent, but it is the plain, vinella ones that are horrible after exposure and moderate use. I have/had a large catalogued selection of Hamilton special/experimental metal dials from the Hamilton factory, ones seldom or never seen so I guess they were not too popular.

CAUTION: One important thing to not do is to refinish those snap on METAL Howard dials, as they warp and the hands pop off regularly!
 
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Scott Erholm

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Being a newbie, I neither wish to buy or inadvertently sell a watch with a fake dial. However, if I had a nice movement in a nice case with a horrible chipped and cracked dial, I would probably install a reproduction dial rather than just trash the movement. If I did this, I would try to find a dial which was a faithful reproduction for the type and period of the watch. Then if I sold this watch, I would be honest enough to state that the dial was a reproduction (although I would not use the pejorative word "fake" when trying to sell the watch!).

I hope I have not already purchased a fake or repro dial! Is detection of these dials just something learned over years of experience, or are there some telltale signs? Are there reproductions or fakes that are an equal quality to the original?

I'm quite happy with my recent purchase of a B.W. Raymond grade 455, and the dial is perfect. Please don't tell me it is a fake! It is not double-sunk like the similar one of Jon's photos.

Thanks for the help, and thanks for helping newbies like me understand how to tell the difference.

Scott

P.S. I just read the Wiki article on dials, particularly the "Fake" section. From this I take it that there are reproductions made which are high quality, but that they are so marked on the back. At least then I should not unwittingly pass along a fake dial. If I ever sell a watch with a reproduction part anywhere, I will honestly state that fact. I wish I could count on all sellers to do the same. Cheers!
 

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Jon Hanson

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Being a newbie, I neither wish to buy or inadvertently sell a watch with a fake dial. However, if I had a nice movement in a nice case with a horrible chipped and cracked dial, I would probably install a reproduction dial rather than just trash the movement. If I did this, I would try to find a dial which was a faithful reproduction for the type and period of the watch. Then if I sold this watch, I would be honest enough to state that the dial was a reproduction (although I would not use the pejorative word "fake" when trying to sell the watch!).

I hope I have not already purchased a fake or repro dial! Is detection of these dials just something learned over years of experience, or are there some telltale signs? Are there reproductions or fakes that are an equal quality to the original?

I'm quite happy with my recent purchase of a B.W. Raymond grade 455, and the dial is perfect. Please don't tell me it is a fake! It is not double-sunk like the similar one of Jon's photos.

Thanks for the help, and thanks for helping newbies like me understand how to tell the difference.

Scott

P.S. I just read the Wiki article on dials, particularly the "Fake" section. From this I take it that there are reproductions made which are high quality, but that they are so marked on the back. At least then I should not unwittingly pass along a fake dial. If I ever sell a watch with a reproduction part anywhere, I will honestly state that fact. I wish I could count on all sellers to do the same. Cheers!
Actually MOST RR dials, unless ones with special logos, are available--one has to look for them or make it known that you want a specific dial. Try the nawcc emart or Web Horology. Placing a FAKE of any quality is the lazy mans' way out, and most dealers and sellers simply JUST WANT TO MAKE THE SALE. The problem lies in that somewhere down the line the watch with the FAKE dial will get passed on and sold to some newbie or unsuspecting collector or enthusiast. Some of the folks place original dials on watches that are the incorrect type, style, or period; again, this switching eventually TRAPS someone.

Yes, some FAKES are better made than others but ALL REALLY ARE TERRIBLE and RUIN A WATCH. As stated many excellent looking dials are DANGEROUS FAKES, ones even experienced collectors and dealers don't catch.

Another point is that most folks don't carry around tools to check dial backs and MOST DEALERS will not allow it anyway--this is even worse at flea markets where dealers and sellers wll really give you a hard time. (And, it isn't just dials--how many folks get STUCK WITH INCORRECT COCKS, BBs and incorrect/wrong balance wheels?

Watches can be a very dangerous hobby, esp for the rarer items and with all the switching and molestation that takes place on an hourly basis!

Best advice--BE CAREFUL!
 

Kent

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Re: Replacement dials

Louis, et. al.:

I've taken a full day to think about this subject before replying so as not to just have a knee-jerk reaction. I understand very well that the availability of replacement parts that are indistinguishable from the originals devalues the market and obscures historical originality. I also understand the feelings of a novice who purchases what is believed to be an original watch only to later discover that the dial (or case, or winding wheels, or whipspring, or whatever) is a replacement (been there, done that)

But that doesn't mean that the replacement dial (or whatever part) is a fake. I've looked at a number of definitions, from various sources, of the word "fake." The majority of the definitions use terms like deceit, deception, fraud, sham, cheat or swindle. Indeed, these are all the terms that some people are applying to replacement dials. And that is the problem that I have in accepting the use of the word "fake" to refer to replacement dials. Specifically, in their manufacturer and distribution, there is no demonstrated intent to defraud.

I will agree that there are dishonest watch dealers who will knowingly claim that a watch bearing a replacement dial is all-original (or won't state that it isn't). And, there are other somewhat dishonest watch dealers who, lacking the knowledge to tell one way or the other, claim that such a watch is original. But this is an entirely different situation. Such dealers might claim that a filled case is gold or that a shiny white case is silver. I also agree that a watch lacking the correct original dial has significantly less value that one that has such a dial. I am by no means saying that I think third-party replacement dials are the equal to original dials. Stopping dishonest dealers has nothing to do with whether you call a third-party dial a replacement dial or a fake dial, although it is regrettable that novices can't spot the difference and get stuck with a lesser purchase for what may be a high price. But that is what makes them novices, be it antique watches, or cars, or radios or computers, if they don't know what they're buying, they're going to get stuck.

For 60 year, or 80 years, or perhaps longer, third-party replacement dials have been sold in this country. Some have been made here, others elsewhere (it really doesn't matter). There is a market for them because people wanted (and still want) to replace damaged or missing dials so that a watch can be used for its intended purpose. A part of the market existed (or exists) because the watch owners wanted (or want) a different-looking dial on their watch. And the market existed (and still exists) because most of the watch companies aren't around to supply original factory replacement parts to fill the demand. Here's an interesting question: If Hamilton - which still has corporate existence - produced today a 16-size, enamel, Montgomery dial, marked "Illinois - Bunn Special - 23 Jewel - 60 Hour - 6 Position" that was in all respects identical to the ones made 70+ years ago, would that be an accepted, original factory dial?

There is an argument that the dial has special character, unlike any other part of the watch, such as a mainspring, or a staff, or a setting lever. Why should that be? All are parts needed to make the watch functional and all have had non-factory replacements be made available. A watch with a replacement dial is what it is. It is valued as such and that is the penalty that is paid.

An underlying concept in all of this is that watches ought to be left in their original condition. Different people view this in different ways. Some purists say that this pertains to all watches (a valid viewpoint). Others say that this only applies to historically significant watches (an equally valid viewpoint). Others say that a watch ought to be put in the best condition possible (also a viewpoint). And then there are those who say "It doesn't matter, I'll do what I need to do to sell it." This, too, is a viewpoint.

If a watch has a badly busted up dial, or is missing a dial, should it remain that way forever? Or should a third-party replacement dial be mounted so as to allow the dial to be used? It all depends upon your viewpoint.
 

Jon Hanson

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FOR THE UMTEENTH TIME:

Some dealers and sellers use FAKE dials simply to make a sale and move along merchandise; and, granted, it is the second party down the line that MIGHT get stuck with a FAKE dial. Many movements that had little value 25 or 50-60 years ago have been 'furriously" assembled and recased, fixed and "put together" simply because the old watch bone yards, hoards, movement staches, collections of same are almost exhausted. Notice how many watches get spun around and sold on the many venues--these folks are sellers and the worse watch and component remainders are the more they need something! Apologists are fast to support BAD restorations, repairs, switches and such as an excuse to support a really BAD collectible.

It is important to understand why dials are damaged--fragility PLUS damage done to them as a result of scrapping or work by BAD watchmakers.

Junk is usually junk, unless rare, and "dolling up" junk is no excuse; bringing back common kaka with fake components simply continues the item as junk.

Comparing original WINDING WHEELS, levers, whips to a FAKE dial is ABSOLUTELY ABSURD! HAS ANYONE EVER SEEN OR HEARD OF A FAKE WW, LEVER, OR WHIPLASH?
 
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Jon Hanson

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TAGLINE: one well known very BIG dealer issues lists of watches for sale monthly laiden with FAKE DIALS, FAKE ENGRAVING and "one dip" cleaning methods! :eek::mad::mad:

Why, becuase of the FISH out there buying FAKE kaka. It is profitable. I don't any meaningful collectors buying this garbage.:mad:

SWITCHING is bad enough, but FAKES?
 
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Jon Hanson

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PPS Does anyone have any FAKE 72 winding wheels for sale? :eek::rolleyes::p:}:Party:
 

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Re: Replacement dials

If a watch has a badly busted up dial, or is missing a dial, should it remain that way forever? Or should a third-party replacement dial be mounted so as to allow the dial to be used? It all depends upon your viewpoint.
I've heard this "usability" argument used several times in this discussion, and I have to say I find it completely disengenuous. People who collect watches very rarely use them. Most watch collectors have a number of watches, and if they use them at all, it's likely that they have a handful of carry watches and the rest are simply part of the collection. Much more frequently, they are not used at all. The usability argument is specious and misleading.

I personally don't believe for a moment that people add fantasy and fake dials to make a watch usable. I believe they add those fake dials to make the watch more impressive or easier to sell at inflated prices. I strongly believe it's either about ego or greed. If someone was interested in "usability" they wouldn't care how many chips or hairlines a dial has. Those don't impact usability one iota. They simply impact appearance... which in turn impacts the ability to show off the watch, brag about it (ego), and sell it for inflated prices (greed).

We really need to be honest with each other and stop making excuses for improper behavior. We all know the real motives people have for using these fake dials, and it isn't usability. Why pretend? Who are we trying to protect? And more to the point, who are we allowing to be harmed as we protect the miscreants?

We need to display some intellectual integrity here and protect the people that are new to the field and want to learn from our words and deeds. What are we teaching them? Are we saying it's okay to do anything to a watch to make it prettier (under the pretense that a watch has to be pretty to be usable)? That's hardly helpful to the science of horology. We're supposed to be an educational organization. Why would such an organization stand in the way of educating the public on how to spot (and AVOID) fake dials?

- Greg
 

Kevin W.

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Is somebody standing in the way of educating people here on fake dials?:eek:
 

Jon Hanson

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Yes, with absurd comparisons and untrue definitions and terms!
 

Scott Erholm

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Greg wrote:
I've heard this "usability" argument used several times in this discussion, and I have to say I find it completely disengenuous.
Greg,

What about a situation like this? I got this Illinois 12s watch as part of a lot of non-working watches (mostly for my own practice). It is now running, and I think it is a nice little watch. However, it was made for the Hartdegen company, in Newark, NJ. From what I have read, the Hartdegen Co was a landmark store that was in business for over 100 years. I wish I could find an original replacement dial, but I think the odds of that are pretty next to impossible.

Now, this watch is only 11 jewels, and is a 12 size. If it was in good condition, it might be worth $75. But the dial is a wreck, and even if it could be fixed, it would not be worth the time and effort. So I suspect most people would just junk it, or cannibalize it for parts.

I would like to find a suitable dial, and sell it. I think it would be great if someone actually carried this watch. I would be honest, and say that the original dial was too badly damaged, and I would expect to sell it for maybe $30-$40. So now this little inexpensive watch has a new life.

I'm still new enough to all this to think this watch is pretty dang cool, even though it is a 12s with only 11j. I don't want to just trash it. As long as I'm honest about the dial replacement, I don't see a problem. I will admit that the problem is the seller down the line who is NOT honest about the replacement dial.

So, I'm all for honesty and educating ourselves and the public on how to identify and avoid fake dials, but I'm not going so far as to say there is never a good reason to replace a dial.

Thanks,

Scott
 

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Fred Hansen

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If the current appearance is a big issue than a simple patch of the damaged areas would be a huge improvement and I believe a far better option than any "replacement".

Fred
 

Kevin W.

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if you sell a watch and disclose to the buyer this watch is not original and tell them what you know that is not original, then it,s up to the buyer to buy or not buy.
Education is a good thing always.I would sell any watch i have as is and not guaranteed to be original, it just makes sense.I would never claim to be a expert in the id of fake dials, using fake dials as a term for not the original dial which came on the watch.
I know i am not a purist and i like my watch to work well and look good.If the dial is not original i can live with it.I mean after a 100 years i am just glad to have a running watch to tell time with.
 

Greg Davis

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Scott, your watch does not need a pretty new dial to have "a new life". The dial it has now may not be pretty but it doesn't stop the watch from telling you what time it is. If you want it to have a "new life" start using it and give it that new life.

A new dial might add to your pride, and it might make it easier to sell for more money, but it doesn't extend the "life" of the watch at all. You don't need to "trash it" simply because it has an unattractive dial. If you personally can't take pleasure from it in its current condition, sell it to someone who can. If you don't make your money back, perhaps you simply paid too much for it.

I invite you to show me how a new pretty dial makes the watch more usable. Otherwise, I invite you to honestly examine your true motivation.

- Greg
 

Kevin W.

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Scott you could buy some ceramic and apply it to your dial, it may help in appearance.As for getting your money back when you put time and money into a watch and sell it.My experience is you won,t get rich from doing it.There are so many reasons as to why.Enjoy the watch and use it and realize you gave it life, as was mentioned earlier.
 

Jon Hanson

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Another suggestion is to stay away from/lay off damaged watches; or, don't buy "bargains!"

There are plenty of 12s watches out there.:eek:
 

Scott Erholm

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Scott, your watch does not need a pretty new dial to have "a new life".

...

If you personally can't take pleasure from it in its current condition, sell it to someone who can. If you don't make your money back, perhaps you simply paid too much for it.

I invite you to show me how a new pretty dial makes the watch more usable. Otherwise, I invite you to honestly examine your true motivation.
Greg,

Well, you and others make a good point, and I will be honest...

I paid maybe $10 for that watch, since it was one of a lot of broken watches. The original purpose was for me to learn more about repairing watches by practicing on inexpensive ones, so the need to make a certain amount of money is not the motivation.

I will say that yes, I do desire a dial to be in good condition for the watch to be usable to me. I don't want to pull a watch out of my pocket and look at a badly chipped dial every time I check the time. So yes, I think a good looking dial is important. An exception would be if we're talking about a really historically significant watch, where the damaged dial tells part of the story.

I've seen a fair number of small dial repairs, even by professionals, and they never look really good. With such huge chips in that dial, I really doubt I could make it look acceptable.

So, now to my true motivations. It is true that I personally would not carry that watch. But I think that somebody might like to carry it, and I imagine that the person who carried it wouldn't like to look at the chipped dial any more than I would. So I will someday sell this watch. Like I said, it might be worth $75 if everything were in good condition. With the badly chipped dial, I'm guessing it might bring $10-$15. Now, with a replacement dial, it would probably bring $30-$40. So a replacement dial lowers the value from original, but raises the value from damaged. So yes, I am being honest that money is the motivating factor here. But I also believe that usability is the factor behind the money. Yes, the watch will still tell time regardless of the dial condition, but not in a pleasing manner.

So that is just one point of view on one particular watch. My point of view might likely be different for another watch.

I'll admit to being a bit amazed and still confused over the whole subject of originality of watch components, when even as sold brand new, there were many options for dials, and the customer typically picked out the desired case. It's not like a '65 Mustang, where all the parts were factory installed, and all the serial numbers should agree for the car to be considered "original".

Still, as always, I really value all the opinions, and it helps me learn, and I will likely change my mind several times in the future. Sometimes I feel like the kid "toad" in the movie Gran Torino!

Scott
 

Greg Davis

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I appreciate the frank discussion, Scott. I do appreciate the desire to learn how to repair watches. I felt that way once myself, and frequently bought "junkers" just so I could take them apart without fear that I might be destroying something valuable.

But I also have to say that I've bought a couple of watches with chipped private label dials expressly because they had the private label dial. This is especially true if the private label dial matched the markings on the movement. And I'd say triply true if the name on the dial and movement happened to end in "Davis" or have come from Knoxville, TN. You just never know what the next owner might appreciate about the things you hold. You're assuming they want somethig pretty, but they might just want a piece of history from that area. Personally, I find it frustrating when I get a private label movement that has a mismatched dial.

One of the reasons I seek out certain private labels is that my grandfather was a watchmaker. He worked in a few stores in the midwest and in the south, and I like having watches from those stores... gives me the sense I might be touching something he touched.

Anyway, I just wanted to give you another perspective on the dial. Just because it isn't pretty doesn't mean someone wouldn't desire it.

- Greg
 

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