Fürderer Jaegler et Cie Schwarzwald - French style alarm clock

Discussion in 'Your Newest Clock Acquisition' started by tarant, Nov 8, 2017.

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  1. tarant

    tarant Registered User
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    #1 tarant, Nov 8, 2017
    Last edited: Nov 8, 2017
    This company of French origin (Paris, Strasbourg) started selling Schwarzwald clocks (de la foret Noire) in the year 1855. They had on offer furniture or straw hats too. 1855:
    FJ_1855.png
    Info from Metz Exhibition, 1861:
    FJ_1861.png
    About the year 1865 they opened clock factory in Neustad in Baden, Germany. They listed later this year as the beginning date of their business. See info from the catalog of the German Lands exhibition from the year 1873.
    FJ_1873.png

    FJ produced mainly Black Forrest cockoo style clocks with wooden or openwork brass plates. They were also selling Gustav Becker clocks (weight or spring driven regulators) with their own logo stamped on plates.

    Generally, clock is in BF style, but hands and pendulum bob are in French style. Clock has one barell with two springs, with counterclockwise wind up. Movement with solid, full plates has SN, 9677, all parts are numbered with the last two digits. Is this one of the first clocks produced in Neustadt?

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  2. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    one barrel with two springs? How is that? What I see is one barrel with two "first wheels",one for the going train and one for the alarm.Am I missing something?
    Burkhard
     
  3. Chris Radano

    Chris Radano Registered User

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    I think maybe the clock winds through one winding square; clockwise for the alarm, counter clockwise for the time train? Then there would be the alarm spring, and the time spring, in the same barrel? That is unusual. I can't imagine how that's done from here. Is there a complicated ratchet inside the barrel? Not to mention the alarm spring should be smaller than the time spring.

    The Boston Clock Company had a "tandem wind" time and strike movement. Both trains are wound through one winding square, clockwise for one and counter clockwise for the other. Only the Boston Clock Company's movement had each train's springs in it's own barrel (2 separate barrels).
     
  4. tarant

    tarant Registered User
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    No, there's only one direction (left) for winding the alarm and time train. There are actually two barrels on one winding square. Main spring has the Maltese cross for initial wind. I had no time to dismantle this barrel , I got this clock on Nobember 11th...
    I have French pendulum alarm clock striking hours with simillar double barrel for striking hours and alarm.
     
  5. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    with all respect:I´ll bet that this clock has one spring only that interacts with the going barrel in the typical manner causing it to rotate and drive the time train. On the front side of the barrel is the second "first wheel" for the alarm train that is connected with the barrel arbor via a ratchet and uses the spring,this time like in a fixed barrel arangement,i.e. in case the alarm is released the arbor turns in the opposite direction taking with it the second "first wheel" and driving the alarm.I have a small carriage clock by Schmit Schlenker Schwenningen SSS that uses the same principle to drive two trains with one spring.I could imagine to see a Maltese cross stopping device in the above clock to prevent the mainspring from running down completely thus stopping the clock.
    Let´s see what it is!
    Burkhard
     
  6. tarant

    tarant Registered User
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    The only way to prove it, is to open this barrel(s).
    I hate springs, this is "elatiriophobia (?)" ;) That's why I prefer weight driven clocks.
     
  7. P.Hageman

    P.Hageman Registered User

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    Thats a very interesting clock you have there!! Looking from the outside one would not expect such a quality movement inside. I think Burkhard is right how the mainspring barrel is working. I haven't seen this kind of twin wheel barrel much. Congrats!!
     
  8. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Greetings Piotr,

    indeed, a very interisting movement, which I have never seen before. And this movement in a BF case is also a surprise, too.

    About your question when this clock was made:

    First: We know, up to the 1880ies F&J made no brass-movements , but only BF-movements with wooden plates.

    Second: I´m not shure whether your movement was made by Fürderer & Jägler. Because we have several examples of F&J-clocks with bought movements of other BF-companies, but signed with the mark of F&J.

    I would date this clock about 1885/90.

    Thanks for sharing this interesting clock!

    Chronologiker
     
  9. tarant

    tarant Registered User
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    The oldest full plate movement signed (only signed) by FJ I've posted in "Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here". It was Becker's movement from the year 1878.
    Post Your Gustav Becker Clocks Here

    This alarm clock has a lot of anachronistic design and technological features, like molded and polished only plates, difficult to meet in late 80'. On the other hand, FJ cooperated in 80' with the clockmaker and inventor from Norway, Andreas Gulbrandsen Hovde (Schmid). His idee fixe were striking (maybe alarm too) movements using power from the time barrel. Mayby this is the right path?
     
  10. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Piotr, I think you´ve got it! Also I don´t know the Hovde-construction, your movement might be the Hovde-patent.

    Further: We know, Fürderer, Jägler & Cie. in Neustadt was closed in 1889. And all the tools and machins of F&J were sold to Höhnisch & Cie. And Höhnisch & Cie. continued to produce the F&J movements..

    So your movement was made by F&J about 1885/89.

    Congrats Piotr! Very good horo-stuff!

    Chronologiker
     
  11. tarant

    tarant Registered User
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    I've never seen any real clock with his patents.

    In Google patents is the US patent No 330896, published on November 24 1885:
    US330896-0.png

    Large article (ca 3 pages) about his striking mechanism is in OUUZ Nr 9, Juni 1884:
    Beschreibung eines Schlagwerks, welches durch das Zeiger- oder Gehwerk der Uhr direct betrieben wird erfunden von Andreas Gulbrandsen Hovde in Henefos, Norwegen.
     
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  12. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Piotr, thank you very much for your research!

    But does US-patent Nr. 330896 or OUUZ-article describe exactly your movement?

    Chronologiker
     
  13. tarant

    tarant Registered User
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    No, there are much more complicated (especially in OUUZ article) hour striking mechanisms, not alarm. But this is all, what I was able to find.
     
  14. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Piotr, in German clocks magazins a patent for a time and strike movement granted for Fürderer & Jägler is also mentioned. But unfortunately I also couldn´t find it yet.

    Thank you for the very interesting discussion of your F&J movement! We got new insights in the development of Fürderer & Jägler!

    Chronologiker
     
  15. Burkhard Rasch

    Burkhard Rasch Registered User
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    here are pics of my Du Chateau hour and half hour striking carriage clock with a single barrel and spring powering both trains:You can see verry clearly that the broadly toothed barrel drives the T2 pinion that leads up to the contrate wheel and the 11jewel platform while the relative thin S1 wheel drives the more narrow S2 pinion going up to the strike train and ending at the fly pinion.Sorry for not dusting the clock prior of taking the photos and for the pics being a bit blury sometimes,but I hope that it becomes clear what I mean.(pic 2,3=time side,4= strike side)
    Burkhard

    DSCN3431.JPG DSCN3435.JPG DSCN3437.JPG DSCN3442.JPG
     
  16. tarant

    tarant Registered User
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    Very interesting one weight movement (case is not original) posted on KMZiZ forum. This is the first one I saw signed FJ weight driven movement, not produced by Gustav Becker. SN 4560, model of the movement (?) 8. Who and when made it?
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  17. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Piotr, very interesting!

    I regard this movement as a late F& J and I would date it about 1900/1905 because of the pendulum-device (Sorry, I don´t know the corrct term) And I also cannot say whether F & J was the maker.

    Thanks for sharing!

    Chronologiker
     
  18. janekp

    janekp Registered User

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    Piotr very useful materials.
    I think we can change the dating date of the factory
    Here are the scans from the sources from 1843 Furderer & Jaegler Foret Noire-Horlogerie.
    Annuaire général du commerce, de l'industrie, de la magistrature et de l'administration : ou almanach des 500.000 adresses de Paris, des départements et des pays étrangers

    I found a reference to the move of the factory to Bouxwilier in France, but despite the fact that I was close to nothing, I found no trace;
    Coucou, coucou…
    This was due to the application of customs barriers and the factory was to move to Strasbourg, but what address? -I do not know.
    This is a reference from the industry's address book 1845
    Annuaire général du commerce, de l'industrie, de la magistrature et de l'administration ou Almanach des 500000 adresses de Paris, des départements et des pays étrangers 20% 26% 20% 20%% 20jaegler 20fabrik & f = false
    * The year 1845 factory clocks and hats the same name other addresses
    Rapport de recherche

    In the brochure from 1867, Exposition Paris writes about the annual production of 70,000 clocks;

    Earlier, the Furderer hat factory has also been registered.

    IMG_20180318_091602.jpg IMG_20180318_092604.jpg IMG_20180318_093401.jpg Furderer-Jaegler-Co-Wanduhr-Pendeluhr-antik-_57.jpg
     
  19. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Jan, thanks for the hints. There are certain deviations in the information, but this is due to the fact that the company Fürderer, Jägler & Cie. was divided into the legally independent individual companies in Lenzkirch and Neustadt, as well as in the foreign companies Strasbourg and Paris. But the head office was always in Germany, never in France.

    Fürderer, Jägler & Cie left the clock factory in Neustadt in 1886; the company buildings in Neustadt were sold.

    New owners of the clock factory Neustadt AG (UNAG) became merchants who also owned shares in the Lenzkirch clock factory. In 1889, however, the clock factory Neustadt was finally closed and sold.

    Best regards!

    Chronologiker
     
  20. janekp

    janekp Registered User

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  21. janekp

    janekp Registered User

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    I found some more information in digital sources.
    It follows from the fact that the Furderer & Jaegler factory existed since 1856 in Bouxwillier but there was also a clock factory of the Bleyer brothers. There were clocks from Foret Noire. Is it the same factory? I do not know.
    80 to 90 employees were employed there.

    The branch in Paris, Furderer & Jaegler dealt not only with watchmakers - clocks, clocks, springs, but also other fields of commerce.
    As you can see on the advertisement a wide range of trade.

    Also mentioned are the Furedrer & Jaegler factory in Neustadd-Germany.

    Annuaire-almanach_du_commerce_de_l'industrie_furderer  jaegler  1888 rok paryz.jpeg téléchargement (7).jpg téléchargement (6).jpg téléchargement (5).jpg téléchargement (4).jpg téléchargement (3).jpg téléchargement (3).jpg téléchargement (2).jpg téléchargement (1).jpg téléchargement.jpg
     
  22. janekp

    janekp Registered User

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  23. chronologiker

    chronologiker Registered User

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    Jan, you found wonderful sources about Buxweiler! Congrats!

    Thank you for sharing!

    Chronologiker
     
  24. janekp

    janekp Registered User

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    #24 janekp, Mar 19, 2018
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2018
    I found more information in digital sources:
    1838 first entry in the list of companies Strasbourg Bas-Rhin( France) company Furderer & Jaegler Clocks Foret Noire - no exact address
    Rapport de recherche

    Almanach-Bottin du commerce de Paris, des départemens de la France et des principales villes du monde... / par Séb. Bottin,...
    -there is no specific place. Furderer & Jaegler was founded in 1854 in Bouxwillier, probably on the site of the clock factory of the Bleyer Brothers

    In 1866 Furderer & Jaegler moved its factory from Bouxwillers to the Duchy of Baden-Germany due to customs barriers

    Mehr als nur die Kuckucksuhr - Titisee-Neustadt - Badische Zeitung

    According to the local chronicle Rudenberg, the clock factory Fürderer, Jägler and Cie was built in 1866 east of Neustadt, on the Gutach weir. Only four years later, the building was acquired by the cellulose factory, which also produced wood screws there. The Neustädter Uhrenfabrik, successor of Fürderer, Jägler and Cie was founded in 1887 in the same building, but went already in 1889 in liquidation. In 1894, the former watch factory became the screw factory that produced screws for a hundred years at the site in Donaueschinger Strasse in Neustadt (today Lidl-Markt).
    An impression of the diversity of Neustädter production is provided by the exhibits in the Heimatmuseum, including exquisite exhibits from the production of Fürderer and Jägler. There is a hand painted paint clock with alarm clock in dark brown, curved frame. It shows ornaments with leaves and grapes. The shield adorns a summit motif with five freedom fighters, one of which presents the German flag. The motif is probably a scene from the Baden Revolution of 1848, explains Martin Vogelbacher, administrator of the Heimatmuseum. The watch was acquired at the antique fair in Metz (France). From there comes the carved wooden clock with alarm clock, fitted with Gamsmotiv and a frame of leaves and a dainty porcelain clock with alarm clock and chapel motif. A Jockeleuhr (small clock with porcelain or brass plate) with porcelain plate is painted with roses, flowers and tendrils. Fürderer and Jägler also produced Black Forest cuckoo clocks that once hung in every good room.

    Annuaire / [Amis de la Bibliothèque humaniste de Sélestat]

    other sources speak of:
    Furderer Jaegler, who had settled in Neustadt in the heart of the Black Forest. It dates from the 1870s. The company founded on June 30, 1865, closed in 1892.

    Other sources
    Fürderer Jägler & Cie
    Vorname Uhrenfabrik
    Wohnort Neustadt
    Sonstiges die Fa. wurde 1887 von der Fa. Unag weitergeführt
    Jahr 1887
    Ort Neustadt
    Provinz Baden-Württemberg
    Land Deutschland
    U-Region Schwarzwald


    Furderer & Jaegler branch in Paris already in 1864.1876 (possibly earlier) at Fontaine au Roi Street 13 -reveils , clocks, spring bells, commodes, Vienna style regulators, cuckooks, alarm clocks for springs and weight driven,bells for alarm clocks etc
    In 1864, the announcement in Paris and the factory in Bouxwillers

    In 1894, the offer was increased by American clocks, comtoise
    In 1906, it took over the Steinhilber agency
    The Furderer & Jaegler factory in Neustadd-Germany was also mentioned.
    There is also a reference to Furderer & Jaegler Cie quincaillerie metal articles Strasbourg Rue Gutenberg 1-2
    In 1859, Furderer & Jaegler Cie bought a house at Chevaliers Street No. 22 Strasbourg, at the same time a metal art representation was established at Gutenberg 1-3 Strasbourg. Is it the same company from the clock? I do not know.

    Summarizing Furderer& Jaegler ou -Fürderer &Jägler & Cie l this was a company founded in France, more or less in 1838 with a wide range of clock products from Foret Noire, moved to Germany later, it was not established whether it was a branch in Strasbourg at Gutenberg 1-3 where there is the same name company as a composition of metal products.We meet occasional signatures on case and mechanisms (recently Tarant has assumed a very nice mechanism)

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