European Private Label Watches for the American Market

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Dave Coatsworth, Jan 23, 2018.

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  1. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    Many Touchons were private labeled by leading jewelers, almost all in the United States. Some of these, such as Agassiz, probably should be classified as separate brands, rather than a jeweler private labels.

    The most common private labeler by far was Tiffany.

    It appears from consecutive serial numbers that jewelers often ordered watches in batches. For example, ## 43,759 and 43,820 all are both Tiffany PL Type TO5 in my classification, as are all the other examples I have seen in the serial number range. It is possible that Tiffany ordered a batch of Type TO5 movements that at least ranged from 43,759 - 43,820.

    1. Agassiz

    2. Asprey (English)

    3. G.W. Baltom

    4. Bailey, Banks & Biddle

    5. Bigelow Kennard

    6. Birks

    7. D.E. Black

    8. Black, Starr & Frost

    9. Black, Starr, Frost & Gorham

    10. Blair & Crawford

    11. Boas

    12. Bohm-Bristol

    13. F. Bonnet

    14. Boucheron (French)

    15. Bunde & Untemeyer

    16. J.E. Caldwell

    17. Charles & Grave

    18. Charlton

    19. Davis & Freeman

    20. Jos. K. Davison’s Sons

    21. Dickerson

    22. Donovan & Seamans

    23. Arthur A. Evert

    24. J. Ferrero

    25. G.H. Francis

    26. Gattle

    27. Greenleaf & Crosby

    28. J.C. Grogan

    29. Gubelin (Swiss)

    30. Hallmark

    31. R. Hemsley

    32. Higgins

    33. Hodgson Kennard

    34. T. Kirkpatrick

    35. Maier & Berkele

    36. Marcus & Co.

    37. A. Newsalt

    38. Nordlinger

    39. Pequignot

    40. Phelps & Perry

    41. A.C. Routier

    42. Ryrie Bros.

    43. Ryrie Century

    44. Shreve & Co.

    45. Shreve, Eacret & Treat

    46. Siegler Bros.

    47. Smith Patterson

    48. Spaulding

    49. Theo. B. Starr

    50. Stowell

    51. L.W. Suter

    52. Tiffany

    53. Van Riper

    54. A.A. Webster

    55. Welsh & Bro.

    56. E.A. Whipple & Sons
     
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  2. Rick Hufnagel

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    #52 Rick Hufnagel, Mar 21, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 21, 2020
    This is a neat Swiss watch for Mermod, Jaccard & co. St. Louis.

    It was up for sale for an age, and I finally got tired of staring at it, so I wanted to add it with it's Mermod Jaccard friends in my watch pile.

    It's a lever set, stemwind hunter. About the size of an American 10s. Nice lever escapement. There are some scratches and the Gilt is a bit discolored around the edges. That big fancy gold minute hand is also M.I.A.
    IMG_20200321_213515939.jpg
    It runs, but I won't do anything to get it going perfectly till I figure out how it's going to be housed. I have some ideas.. but I doubt I'll ever find an actual case for it.
    IMG_20200321_213618696_HDR.jpg
    It doesn't say on it, or match any of the "Lady standard" movements in my MJ&Co catalog. It does match the description however. Makes me think its probably later... Maybe the latter half of the 1880s?? Just an educated guess from the stemwind mechanism which I'll explain. If you compare my movement with this photo, they look to have the same layout, just a modified top plate on the listing.
    Screenshot_20200321-221452.png
    Another reason I purchased this was in hopes to see a "live and in living color" version of this patent. (Borrowed from PWDB). A stemwinding patent from Justin & Samuel Jaccard Jaques that is mentioned in the MJ&co catalog
    US117782-0.png

    In this clip from the catalog, the lady's stemwinding watches all had a patented SW attachment from August 8th 1871. An earlier patent, especially applied to women's watches. Sorry this is tiny, you'll have to enlarge it to read. It was great to match a patent to this!
    Screenshot_20200321-221404~2.png

    The note from the Mermod Jaccard Catalog states that the design of the stemwind is constantly changing and improving, and in this instance it is very much changed and improved. Definitely a simple and solid set-up. Does not much resemble the original button set patent.
    IMG_20200321_220933972.jpg


    Guess I'll have to look for an older version!

    Thanks for reading my madness, enjoy your weekend!
     
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  3. richiec

    richiec Registered User
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    Cabin fever does strange things, I'm a watch guy but I bought three clocks last weekend because there was nothing else horological to buy. You can find them in an old thread in the recent clock purchases section. I like that watch, Rick, simple and easy to work on, no non-essential doodads complicating it. Good luck with the case, I guess you could always make a display figurine.
     
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  4. Clint Geller

    Clint Geller Registered User
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    I have seen Howard Series I's and II's in "MB" cases with the same cartouche, and I always associated that mark with Margot Brothers as well. A separate roughly contemporaneous "M & B" mark also occasionally turns up, which I have associated with Mathey & Brother.
     
  5. Springdale Ben

    Springdale Ben Registered User

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    #55 Springdale Ben, May 25, 2020
    Last edited: May 25, 2020
    Hi

    Could anyone help me identify the maker of this private label movement? Signed Anderton & Eberhardt & Co, Dayton O (Ohio). Serial number 100590

    Anderton & Eberhardt & Co, Dayton O - listed on Ticktalks list of V&C private label, but not sure this is V&C?

    Many thanks

    Ben

    thumbnail_IMG_1228.jpg thumbnail_IMG_1227.jpg
     
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  6. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    Moderator feel free to remove, but I am going to cross post this interesting Tiffany in an attempt to figure out (or get opinoins) as to maker. The 5 digit serial seems to not really quite fit in with Agassiz or Meylan. Case is very bulky and Patek-esque but not even close, movement wise to Patek or V&C. I could be very wrong. Triple date moonphase btw.

    thoughts?

    tiffany18k.jpg
     
  7. Springdale Ben

    Springdale Ben Registered User

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    Hi Jeff

    I've been doing research to try and find out more about my Anderton Eberhardt & Co pocket watch (movement above).

    I am not an expert on Swiss movement makers, but purely based on the serial number yours would tie in with Audemars Piguet known Tiffany examples. I've attached two Audemars Tiffany pocket watches with serial numbers 19742 and 19826. These watches date from date from circa 1917. If it is Audemars it may well be signed under the dial.

    The serial number also fits with "European Watch and Clock Co" who made watches for Cartier and Tiffany in the 1910-20's.

    I think the serial number would rule out Patek, V&C, Longines & LeCoultre.

    I hope this gives you somewhere to start! I'll I come across anything else I'll let you know.

    Thanks

    Tiffany Audemars 1.png Tiffany Audemars 2.PNG
     
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  8. Springdale Ben

    Springdale Ben Registered User

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    Hi Jeff

    I also came across this Audemars Moonphase Calendar pocket watch from a 2012 Auction catalogue, earlier date than yours but not too dissimilar movement configuration.

    Ben

    Audemars Moonphase Calendar.PNG
     
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  9. John Cote

    John Cote Director
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    I posted this watch a while ago on in the complicated watch forum but it fits here so I will post it again. There is a photo of similar looking watch with an equivalent movement on page 130 of the book, "Audemars Piguet" authored by Brunner, Pfeiffer-Belli and Wherli. So, I wrote to AP and their archivist confirmed to me by eMail that this watch with matching serial number (7791) on both the movement and 18k case was manufactured by AP and sold by them in 1906. They also confirm that the movement is an AP Calibre 18SMCRV. I have to say that the people at AP were very cooperative and easy to deal with and my thanks go out to them.

    The watch was made for Touchon who sold it in the US with a private label engraved on the barrel bridge to prominent and early Los Angeles jeweler S. (Simon) Nordlinger & Sons. I collect and love high grade Swiss watches with US jewelry store private labels and have always wanted a Nordlinger so I am twice proud to have found this one.

    The watch case is 48mm and the movement is about 39mm in diameter on the back. The case is plain polished with plain inner cuvette. The gentleman who sold it to me said he bought it an estate sale around 50 years ago and that it had sat in his bank box most of the time since then.

    AP-SplitMinute_DialSide-Web.jpg
    AP-SplitMinute_Mvt-web.jpg
     
  10. Rick Hufnagel

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    #60 Rick Hufnagel, Jun 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2020
    Hello guys and gals,

    I found a book called "Industries of Pittsburgh, statistical and trade review" dated 1879. This book has become an absolute invaluable tool for Pittsburgh private label watches. I now have two to match the book, one Aurora and this imitation model 57.

    Industries of Pittsburgh, null.
    https://play.google.com/store/books/details?id=691PAQAAMAAJ

    Jos. Koenig, Pittsburgh PA!
    It has a flat, unsigned dial

    IMG_20200625_161522913_HDR.jpg IMG_20200625_161538773.jpg

    The movement itself is in better condition than any imitation American watch I've seen in hand. It's a good looker. It has 11 "jewels". 2 each balance hole balance caps, pallet stones and a roller that actually look like real jewels, and the 4 clear jewels on the top plate.

    Someone has loved it in the past. It has an alloy mainspring and is pretty clean inside. New dial washer.

    Anyways, here is the excerpt from the book linked above.

    J. Koenig & Bro. Watchmakers and jewelers, No. 579 Penn Av.

    One of the most noticeable establishments along Penn Avenue is the tastefully arranged and elegantly stocked store of J. Koenig & Bro., located in the three-story brick building 17.5x50, and No. 579. This house was founded in 1865 by Mr. J. Koenig, with a capital of only $1.000. In 1875 Mr. August Koenig was admitted. Both gentlemen are practical and experienced watchmakers. Their average stock is valued at about $30,000, comprising a full line of Foreign and American watches, solid and plated silver ware of the latest designs, French, German and American clocks, rings, brooches, chains and fine jewelry of every description. Their annual sales amount from $8,000 to $10,000, and their business is steadily increasing. Fine watch repairing is the specialty for which this house is particularly celebrated. Both members of the firm are natives of Prussia, but have for many years resided in Pittsburgh.

    So, an exciting addition to the hometown private labels! 579 Penn Ave is right in downtown Pittsburgh in the cultural district (theaters and such). Unfortunately, the building is not there anymore.

    Thanks for checking it out and have a good day!
     
  11. Rick Hufnagel

    Rick Hufnagel Just Rick!
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    Here is Mr Koenig all done up in new case. Running well and looks pretty good. It's a nickel pair case that came in a lot recently and I think this is a good match.

    Should have shown these with the last post but the mainspring was putting up quite a fight. It didn't want to stay hooked on the barrel. The whole watch had to come apart (again) to get the barrel out..... So... A little frustration.

    IMG_20200625_205532033.jpg IMG_20200625_205557161.jpg
     
  12. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    I collect Waltham movements made for and cased by Bigelow, Kennard & Co. (Boston), but I could not help adding a couple of Swiss examples. I have shown these elsewhere, but they belong in this thread, too.

    First is an 18-ligne Longines in a Sterling case.
    Longines_18,65.jpg

    Next is a 12-ligne Vacheron & Constantin (20 or 21j) in a Jeannot & Shiebler case.
    VC_313350_f.jpg VC_313350_m.jpg

    Here is a 13-ligne V&C (20j) from a little later (recased orphan movement).
    345120_f.jpg 345120_m2.jpg

    And a 17-ligne 21-jewel V&C in a Jeannot & Shiebler case.
    VC345309f_replaced.jpg 345309m.jpg

    Here is a lever fusee (movement only) made for an earlier iteration of the company (prior to 1845).
    BigelowBros2305d.jpg BigelowBros2305csig.jpg BigelowBros2305m2.jpg
     
  13. miguel angel cladera

    miguel angel cladera Registered User

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    An AP Walsh from Sam Hammond free sprung lever and WI

    20200612_121150 5.jpg

    20200612_120936 1.jpg 20200612_121046 3.jpg
     

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