European Private Label Watches for the American Market

Discussion in 'American Pocket Watches' started by Dave Coatsworth, Jan 23, 2018.

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  1. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Senior Administrator
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    This thread is for posting European watches that are made for, and contain private label markings for, the American market. Examples of makers who produced a significant number of watches for the American market are Vacheron-Constantin, Patek Philippe, and Longines.

    When posting, please include photos whenever possible (obeying copyright law, of course). For the description, please provide the serial number, model and grade information, and any information you have obtained about the retailer who's name appears on the watch. The more information, the better. We would like to make this more than just a list. It will, hopefully, become a prime resource for private label research. Thanks in advance to all who contribute!
     
  2. Dave Coatsworth

    Dave Coatsworth Senior Administrator
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  3. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    C.H. Meylan and Touchon & Co. were very active in the PL market. My serial number databases for each of these makers lists hundreds of PLs for many U.S., Canadian, and European retailers. It would be too time consuming to extract all the PL information from those databases. If you are interested in learning which jewelers sold C.H. Meylan or Touchon PLs, search for "PL" in the database or for a specific jeweler, e.g., Grogan or Spaulding. You can access my C.H.Meylan database at
    Dropbox - C.H. Meylan Serial Number Database.doc
    You can access my Touchon & Co. database at
    Dropbox - Touchon Serial Numbers.doc
     
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  4. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    J.E. Caldwell of Philadelphia seemed to like fine foreign movements.
    This one is by Vacheron & Constantin, probably around 1900.
    334893m2.jpg 334893_d.jpg

    and here are two Agassiz movements for Caldwell. The larger one (~16-size) is in a Keystone coin-silver demi-hunter case. The smaller one (~0-size) surprised me by having a cylinder escapement. It is in a Swiss case.
    45303d.jpg 45303m.jpg
    49001b.jpg 49001c.jpg 49001f.jpg 49001m.jpg
     
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  5. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    LOVE THIS THREAD! This is going to be a good one!
     
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  6. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #6 Keith R..., Jan 27, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
    Oliver Gerrish of Portland Maine
    Born Jan 4 1796
    Died Dec 3 1888

    Apprenticed under John Gaines 1810
    Later worked with Baldwin & Jones
    Opened shop in Portland ME

    Watch is 18s English coin silver, Chester essay, case makers initials RS,
    hallmark m for 1875. Watch is an English lever with dust cap. I'll confirm
    jewel count. Perhaps 14J.

    Watch signed on dial and movement Oliver Gerrish at Portland ME.

    Not sure if photos attached, I'm rusty........................Keith R...

    100_0919 (800x600).jpg 100_0921 (800x600).jpg 100_0933 (800x600).jpg
     
  7. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    Hardy & Hayes, Pittsburg, Pa.

    img512.jpg img513.jpg
     
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  8. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    Greg - the movement you just posted (Hardy & Hayes), or slight variations, was sold to many jewelers in the U.S. I have heard it claimed that this is a LeCoultre ebauche and there is some suggestion that these may have been finished by Agassiz.
    I have seen them marked for Wright Kay & Co. in Detroit, Rowe Bros. in Chicago, Benedict Bros. in New York, and Galt & Bros. in Washington D.C. All are nicely finished movements.
     
  9. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Greg, nice movement & double sunk dial. Hands are off the chart!

    I'm adding a note for my Gerrish watch previously posted. The small m was in cursive, so 1850
    should be the case hallmark date on post #6 above. Reference Chester assay.

    Here is a watch from about 1890, no hallmark date but warranted coin silver and case initials BVC.
    I'm still tracking down birth & death dates so hope to update. Here's a 17J 18size which I'm sure is
    close to a Cal 66 (International Watch Co movement). JH Colclazer had his jeweler operation in
    Indianapolis Indiana from 1880 forward. It is stem wind and pin set. This watch appears originally
    cased as a side winder. Good runner to boot. It is signed on covet & dial. which is marked with 24
    hours outside the roman numerals.

    Let's see if I can post pics again.

    Keith R...

    103_0947 (800x600).jpg 103_0940 (800x600).jpg 103_0943 (800x600).jpg 103_0949 (800x600).jpg
     
  10. Greg Frauenhoff

    Greg Frauenhoff Registered User
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    O. S. Clayton (later & Sons) sold a number of PL Swiss made mvts. Below are some pics. One of the 18s mvts is very similar (nearly a mirror image) to a mvt that Dave posted above (I would guess that his hunting, mine is open-face). See also the reverse of a Clayton trade card and an ad from 1886 that includes testimonials from several former Aurora Watch Co. employees. I have a copy (somewhere) of biographical info on Clayton (along with his picture) but it's lost in a pile at present.

    img578.jpg img581.jpg
    img579.jpg img580.jpg
    img577.jpg img582.jpg
     
  11. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    I have many Swiss PLs for the American market. One of my favorites is this Patek Philippe Bingham & Walk PL. It is in a massive 14k Jeannot & Shiebler case.
    IMG_7770_edited (579x800).jpg IMG_7773_edited (591x800).jpg IMG_7776_edited (768x800).jpg IMG_7779_edited (800x368).jpg IMG_7777_edited (780x800).jpg
     
  12. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    Another favorite is this 18k Bigelow Kennard PL Vacheron Constantin, with an observatory grade movement. Unfortunately, I haven't been able to find any record of it having been observatory-tested.

    IMG_2097 (648x800).jpg IMG_2096 (620x800).jpg IMG_2091 (776x800).jpg
     
  13. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    I will post just one more favorite for now, which is this 18k J.E. Caldwell PL H.R. Ekegren minute repeater.

    IMG_4430 (646x800).jpg IMG_4435 (642x800).jpg IMG_4438 (800x778).jpg IMG_4444 (790x800).jpg
     
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  14. Rich Newman

    Rich Newman Chair
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    This likely Liverpool lever example is signed on the dial and movement George Harlow, Roxbury, Massachusetts. Serial number 14280. The silver consular case has an interesting and unidentified maker's mark "MB" in a fancy cartouche. I'm thinking American. Possibly the watch case maker's Augustus Margot and Richard Busteed who were in New York City and then Boston in 1856.

    George Harlow, Roxbury, MA Watch.jpg Harlow Case.jpg Harlow Dial.jpg Harlow Movement.jpg
     
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  15. Jerry Treiman

    Jerry Treiman Registered User
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    Rich - I associate your case mark with Margot Brothers, but perhaps that name is a later incarnation of the same firm. The cartouche is, I think, distinctive. Here is the Margot Brothers mark in a case I have from the 1880s.

    3012053ib.jpg
     
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  16. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Ethan will probably weigh in here. My last research that I recall had me leaning toward CH Meylan.
    Ethan at one time was struggling with one other possibility.

    This is a Gaven Spence watch out of Newark NJ. He was in business from 1868 to 1898. I do not have
    birth and death dates for this jeweler. Signed dial movement.

    The watch is 17 jewels with gold jewel settings, nickel (note a re-case), and the patented regulator
    (Wilmot) I believe, was patented in New York. It is marked adjusted just under the center wheel.

    Ethan, feel free to correct any errors or omissions.

    Keith R...

    Spence 002 (800x600).jpg Spence 004 (800x600).jpg Spence 007 (800x600).jpg
     
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  17. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    Keith, C. H. Meylan signed and perhaps finished watches like your Spence, but so did Badollet. Meylan made some complicated watches based on this 3/4 plate design. I speculate that Badollet was the primary source of the time-only movements or ebauches Meylan used.
     
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  18. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Thanks Ethan, so noted. When asked or documenting, it shall be Badollet on this Spence
    piece from now on. Keith R...
     
  19. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    On Ethan's V&C with the integral balance. This range was competed in about 1915. Integral balances were fickle and while usually better than straight bi-metallics very few made were of competition level. This was made for competition but like most of the run was very good but not varsity level. Marked Integral balances are unusual.
     
  20. Dr. Jon

    Dr. Jon Moderator
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    Here is a Tiffany PL made bby Audemars Piguet very early for them.

    mvt-sm.jpg dial_sm.jpg
     
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  21. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    oops. I have always thought these were V&C!
     
  22. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
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    I always thought these were Agassiz, but I may have gotten that notion from Jerry or he might have gotten it from me. I used to have the T. Kirkpatrick OF example shown below.

    IMG_2272 (1024x768).jpg
     
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  23. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Alright guys, no laughing on this one. The only listing I found for IF Pitkin keeps turning up as
    Joseph Pitkin on 196 Main in Buffalo, NY. The year is 1853.

    The Hallmark for this watch is London, 1853 and case maker initials are IT. The dust cover
    & movement are signed JF Pitkin. Note Graham repaired and serviced the watch over the
    pond. He states the J is old style English for I. Just can't figure out why the Jeweler's circulars
    say Joseph Pikin, (unless of course his name was really Joseph). The serial number is #68764.
    The watch serial number is on the dial, as well as the movement.

    Keith R...

    100_0983 (800x600).jpg 100_0987 (600x800).jpg 100_0990 (600x800).jpg
     
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  24. Rich Newman

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    This example is a mystery to me. It is pictured in the “Your Time” publication from AHS on page 49, having an unusual American case that is very heavy and well-made in an octagonal shape.

    Alan Treherne writes in the book: “Typical capped fullplate Liverpool watch movement by Thomas Blundell, No 12854, jeweled to the fusee, in a very unusual American octagonal silver hunter case. The casemaker’s mark is “RS” and case is also marked “T. Armour & Co. Balt. 12854”. The significance of the other imitation hallmarks stamped on the case is not clear. The watch has a standard English single table roller escapement, and the white enamel dial with recessed seconds dial is also inscribed “Thos. Blundell Liverpool”. Thomas Blundell was a prolific manufacturer of watches, many for export to Ireland and America, from the 1820’s to the 1870’s. In the 1871 Census he was at 103 Great George Street Liverpool, aged 77, employing twenty men and a boy.”

    Since this publication, the “T. Amour & Co. Balt.” case maker mark has been correctly identified as “Lamour & Co. Balt.” William B. Larmour was a jeweler and watchmaker working in Baltimore from about 1858-1864 alone, and then as Lamour & Company (as marked on this watch) until about 1877. We can therefore date this watch from roughly 1865 to 1877.

    As Alan states, the significance of all these marks are unknown. “RS” could possibly be Robert Skinner, Clerkenwell (see Priestley, that somewhat fits the oval cameo and approximate date range) and I've seen many other watches for the American market with "RS" but I think that all(?) those I've seen have full English marks. This example does not have full English marks, and it has additional unidentified marks. Any ideas?

    View attachment 461345 View attachment 461346 View attachment 461347 View attachment 461348

    Blundell Case Marks.jpg Blundell Case.jpg Blundell Dial.jpg Blundell Movement.jpg
     
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  25. MartyR

    MartyR Registered User
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    Rich, those marks in the first photo are simply not English hallmarks. This is probably not an English case, but an American one, and flasification of English "hallmarks" by American casemakers is not unusual.

    To clarify further, the profile head on the left is a poorly remembered duty mark from the 18th or early 19th century, the lion on the right is a poorly remembered Sterling silver mark - the lion in gardant pose instead of the correct passant pose and the lion itself badly modelled, and of course there is no town or date mark. The "RS" may also be a remembered maker's mark or may be the realinitials of the casemaker.

    Many early American casemakers are believed to have been immigrants from England, and it is thought that many falsified hallmarks from memory - which explains why many of them would have been sufficient to deceive American buyers.
     
  26. Rich Newman

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    Marty, thanks for your input and I think it fits. I still find the "RS" cameo interesting because I've seen it on quite a few American cases so can't help wonder that there must be an interesting story out there somewhere. I'll post of few more examples of watches that I think are interesting and fits this thread.
     
  27. Jeff Hess

    Jeff Hess Moderator
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    ok, here is my find of the week, courtesy of a well-known gents table in lakeland a few days ago. Case marking is a mystery but without doubt American. And very early. Owned by a fellow who moved from brooklyn to upstate new york and completed a manor house on the date shown in a town now named after his family in 1828. Ezekiel was his father. His name was William Constable Pierrepont) . In the "style of Breguet" itis a quarter hour repeater. Horse mark and eagle facing right and a letter mark. horse mark similar to others I have found that date from the 1840's.

    20180209_163911.jpg 20180209_163934.jpg 20180209_163953.jpg 20180209_164003.jpg 20180209_163918.jpg 20180209_163856.jpg 20180209_163944.jpg
     
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  28. Bryan Eyring

    Bryan Eyring Registered User

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    Duhme & Co, Cinci Patek 5 min

    878013893_o.jpg

    878013792_o.jpg

    878013871_o.jpg
     
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  29. Dave Coatsworth

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    Patek Philippe for Bailey, Banks & Biddle of Philadelphia.

    PatekBBBCaseMark.jpg PatekBBBDial.jpg PatekBBBMvmt.jpg
     
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  30. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    Dave & Bryan, both very nice Patek's!!

    Dave, I'm assuming that Bailey & Co. is an early predecessor to Bailey, Banks & Biddle, correct?

    To both, they offer mostly nickel, correct?

    Nice examples guys!!

    Keith R...
     
  31. Dave Coatsworth

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    On September 20, 1832, Joseph Trowbridge Bailey and Andrew B. Kitchen entered into a partnership to form the Bailey & Kitchen Jewelry Company at 136 Chestnut Street in Philadelphia. This firm was dissolved in 1842 and a new partnership was formed under the name of Bailey and Company by Eli Westcott Bailey, Jeremiah Robbins and James Gallagher. The company moved to 819 Chestnut Street in 1859 and then to Chestnut and Twelfth in 1869. A third partnership was formed on March 1, 1878 by Joseph Trowbridge Bailey II, George Banks (of J. E. Caldwell) and Samuel Biddle (of Robbins, Clark & Biddle). The name of this new partnership was the name we know today – Bailey, Banks, and Biddle. The firm went public on March 2, 1894, adding a ‘Co.’ to the name. In 1904 they moved to a new showroom and eight floor factory at 1218-20-22 Chestnut Street.

    The firm is notable for producing the current design of the Great Seal of the United States in 1904, as well as several military medals, including the Purple Heart and the Medal of Honor. They also designed class rings for West Point and Annapolis.

    After expanding to over 100 stores in 31 states, Bailey, Banks and Biddle was acquired by Zale Corporation in 1961 and then by Finlay Enterprises in 2007. Finlay entered bankruptcy in 2009 and liquidated the remaining 67 Bailey, Banks and Biddle stores. In 2010, Bailey, Banks and Biddle reemerged as a private company, under the management of Smyth Jewelers, with nine stores and an online presence.
     
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  32. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
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    #32 Keith R..., Feb 14, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 15, 2018
    Great write up Dave!! I must assume one of those entities provided watch repair
    and service. I asked the question because of the watch papers discovered in my
    Josh Johnson #7771 from about 1826. Thanks for taking the time to share your
    research. Here are some of the papers, if one can read them.

    PS............I just opened the first photo and one can read 136 Chestnut Street,
    Philadelphia, dead center!! Based on this, it would be Bailey & Co. post 1842 for
    watch service..............

    Thanks Dave................Keith R...

    103_8836 (800x600).jpg 103_2898 (800x600) (2).jpg Joseph Johnson MISSING PAPER (185x200) - Copy.jpg
     
  33. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

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    I have a nice PL Swiss watch for USA:

    DSC09709.JPG

    Livingston Buffalo NY, made - it seems - by Agasizz or Longines.

    DSC09720.JPG

    Good one, I think :)
     
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  34. Travler1

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    Hello, I went a little crazy shopping yesterday and ended up with this fine watch ....the case is signed Tiffany and co ....no signature on movement or dial.

    Would anyone have an opinion as to if this is a Tiffany Swiss factory movement or a movement produced by others for Tiffany ?? Why didn’t Tiffany sign the movement ? I can see the dial signature could be a tad difficult ....I’ve read that Tiffany ( at one point in time ) insisted that other manufactures not sign their name to the movement ?
     
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  35. Kent

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    Here's one I believe was made by Agassiz.

    21J_Mermod_&_Jaccard_107034_HC.jpg
     
  36. tick talk

    tick talk Registered User

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    I've been piecing together a list of mostly American private label V&C watches for several years. Each has movement and dial photos but its a bit much to upload them all there. If anyone wants a picture of a specific watch, please pm.

    Vacheron & Constantin Private-Label Names (Definition of Private-Label: a watch where the retailer’s name is displayed on the dial or movement.)

    1. James Allan & Co., Charleston, So. Car.

    2. Anderson & Houghton, Little Falls, N.Y.

    3. Anderton & Eberhardt

    4. Ball’s Standard, Cleveland O.

    5. Bartens & Rice, New York

    6. A.C. Benedict & Co., New-York

    7. Emile Bernheim, Bruxelles

    8. Chris Bernloehr & Bros., Indianapolis

    9. Bigelow, Kennard & Co., Boston

    10. Henry Birks & Sons, Montreal (also Henry Birks & Co.)

    11. Black, Starr & Frost, New York

    12. Ira G. Blake & Son, Worcester, Mass.

    13. J.C. Bloom & Co., Denver

    14. C.R. Boas, Harrisburg, Pa.

    15. The Bohm Bristol Co., San Francisco

    16. Frank F. Bonnet, Columbus, Ohio

    17. Bowler & Burdick Co., Cleveland, Ohio

    18. Boyd Park Jewelry Co., Denver

    19. F.W. Bromberg, Birmingham, Ala.

    20. J.E. Caldwell & Co., Philadelphia

    21. Chapman & Gale (Norfolk, Va.)

    22. Charlton & Co., New York

    23. Clark & True, Middletown, Conn.

    24. Cowell & Hubbard Co., Cleveland, Ohio

    25. Critzer Bros., San Antonio, Texas

    26. J.W. Cusack, Troy, N.Y.

    27. Davis & Freeman, Atlanta, Ga.

    28. José Luiz de Araujo Dias (South America?)

    29. I.G. Dillon & Co., Wheeling, West Va.

    30. Geo. A. Disque, Eric, Pa.

    31. Nacib K. Djezvedjian & Son, Istanbul Turkey

    32. F.W. Drosten, St. Louis

    33. Edwards & Le Bron, Chattanooga

    34. Edwards & Lee, Buffalo

    35. A.E. Elbe, Bloomington Ill.

    36. Ellis and Ryrie, Toronto

    37. L. & E. Fabre, Buenos-Aires

    38. Paul Fallon Fils, Namur (Belgium)

    39. G.E. Feagans, Joliet, Ill.

    40. J.J. Freeman & Co., Toledo, Ohio

    41. A.F. Froeb & Co., Terre Haute, Ind.

    42. The Gale Jewelry Co., Norfolk, Va.

    43. R. Garbarini, Buenos-Aires

    44. E. Gubelin, Lucerne

    45. J.W. Haight & Co., Auburn N.Y.

    46. A.F. Hall & Co., Janesville, Wis.

    47. A.L. Haman & Co.

    48. Hamann & Koch

    49. Hamilton Jly. (Jewelry) Co., Colorado Springs, Colo.

    50. Samuel Hammond & Co., New-York

    51. Hanni & Cie, Court, Switzerland (HC trademark?)

    52. Hansel Sloan & Co., Hartford, Conn.

    53. Harris & Shafer, Washington D.C.

    54. R.A. Heggie & Bro.

    55. J.C. Herkner, Grand Rapids, Mich.

    56. F.M. Herron, Indianapolis

    57. Hight & Fairfield, Butte, Mont.

    58. Hope Bro. & Co., Knoxville, Tenn.

    59. Henry J. Howe, Syracuse, N.Y.

    60. Humburch Bros., Rochester, N.Y.

    61. F.L. Hunke, Albany, N.Y.

    62. Hyman, Berg & Co.

    63. E.E. Isbell & Co., Cincinnati

    64. Jaccard Watch Co, Kansas City, Mo.

    65. E. Jaccard Jewelry Co., St. Louis, Mo.

    66. A.C. Kirberger, Warren PA

    67. Saml. Kirk & Son Co., Baltimore

    68. Thos. Kirkpatrick, New York

    69. R. Klarenaar

    70. Wm. F. Ladd, New York

    71. The Frank Laubach & Clemmer Co., Akron O.

    72. Harry F. Legg, Minneapolis Minn.

    73. L.H. Leyson Company, Salt Lake City

    74. F. L. Löbner, Potsdamerstrasse 23 Berlin W. (1913)

    75. T. Martin & Co., London

    76. McAllaster & Humburgh, Rochester, N.Y.

    77. Mermod Jaccard & Co., St. Louis

    78. Max Meyer & Bro., Omaha Neb.

    79. F.B. Nourse, Cortland N.Y.

    80. The Nowlan Co., Richmond, Va.

    81. Oskamp Nolting & Co., Cincinnati O.

    82. H. Plenck, Mayence (Mainz, Germany)

    83. W. C. Potter, Chicago

    84. Carl Ranch’s EFTF, Kjøbenhavn (Royal Watch and Chronometer Maker, Copenhagen)

    85. J.R. Reed & Co., Pittsburgh, Pa.

    86. F.A. Robbins Company

    87. Roehm & Son, Detroit, Mich. (also R.J.F. Roehm)

    88. George B. Rose, La Crosse, Wis.

    89. O.L. Rosenkrans & Thatcher Co., Milwaukee, Wiss.

    90. Frank B. Ross, Columbus, Ohio

    91. C. F. Rudolph, Wilmington, Del.

    92. C.L. Ruth, Montgomery, Ala.

    93. Sanders, Schenectady

    94. Jas. Sanders’ Sons, Schenectady, New-York

    95. W. & E. Schmidt, Milwaukee

    96. C.W. Schumann’s Sons, New York

    97. W.F. Sellers & Co, Altoona, Pa.

    98. Sheafer & Lloyd, Pittsburgh

    99. Geo. C. Shreve & Co., San Francisco

    100. Shreve, Treat & Eacret, San-Francisco

    101. H. Silverthorn, Lynchburg

    102. Hal B. Smith & Co., Logansport, Ind.

    103. Spaulding & Co., Chicago

    104. H.N. Squire & Sons, New-York

    105. Theodore B. Starr Inc., New York

    106. Milan T. Stefanovitch, Belgrade

    107. J.P. Stevens & Bro., Atlanta, Ga.

    108. Jean R. Tack, Newark, N.J.

    109. T.C. Tanke, Buffalo, N.Y.

    110. W.S. Taylor & Son, Utica NY

    111. R.T. Thorn & Sons, Albany NY

    112. Tiffany & Co.

    113. Traub Bros. & Co., Detroit

    114. J.B. Trickey & Co., Lincoln, Neb.

    115. Udall & Ballou, New York

    116. Julius C. Walk & Son, Indianapolis

    117. Weld & Sons, Minneapolis

    118. C.J. Wells, Oneida, N.Y.

    119. Welsh & Bro., Baltimore, Md.

    120. Geo. W. Welsh’s Sons

    121. J. Wetherell & Son, Parkersburg West Va.

    122. Aug. Wetteroth, St. Joseph

    123. W.B. Wilcox, Utica, N.Y.

    124. William Wise & Son, Brooklyn

    125. J. Wittlig & Sons, Marietta O.

    126. Geo. Wolf & Co, Louisville

    127. Woods & Hosley, Springfield Mass.

    128. W.L. Young & Co
     
    Kevin W. and Keith R... like this.
  37. Kevin W.

    Kevin W. Registered User

    Apr 11, 2002
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    I work at the Veritas Tools machine shop.
    Nepean, Ontario, Canada
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    Wow Ticktalk you have quite a collection, wish we lived closer so i could see them.
     
  38. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

    Jan 12, 2017
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    circa 1906 12 size hunting Omega made for Hyman Berg & Co Chicago
    in an American Dueber 20 year case

    It's also #62 in tick talk's list above.

    4A842F87-5D87-4212-A2FF-D01108453C1A (2).jpeg 5D900820-AFB2-486D-9558-92085211F361 (3).jpeg

    B7A0D559-66D3-4962-A4C0-EC0C60321008 (3).jpeg

    Rob
     
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  39. tick talk

    tick talk Registered User

    Sep 16, 2008
    595
    96
    28
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    Just the list.
     
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  40. rrwatch

    rrwatch Registered User
    Gibbs Literary Award NAWCC Fellow NAWCC Member

    Sep 4, 2000
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    Watchmaker
    Pooler, GA USA
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    #40 rrwatch, Dec 3, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2018
    Here is a 20 jewel lever set V&C that was my find at the Greensboro show, The watch was retailed by August Wetteroth (No. 122 in the list above, RR watch Inspector in St. Joseph, MO in the late 1880's). As is common, the 14 Kt case is by the NY case maker Jennot & Schliebler, and has a crystal carrying bezel over the movement.
    W. P. Harris was the General Superintendent of the St Joseph, St. Louis and Santa Fe Railroad, which was part of the Santa Fe system. I'm not sure of what the "St. J. T RR Cos" stands for. The inscription date is June, 1889

    DSC01876.JPG DSC01877.JPG DSC01881.JPG DSC01880.JPG
     
  41. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 27, 2012
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    Retired Sr. Proj. mgr,
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    Ed, that is one awesome watch, with a great presentation! I've got my jeweler
    Gerrish in here from ME, but this St. Louis watch will always be one of my favorites.

    Keith R...
     
  42. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 27, 2012
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    This is for a buddy down in Georgia. Here is the European private label thread for the American
    market. Obviously it's been awhile since one has been deposited here. I can probably find one or
    two in KY.

    Keith R...
     
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  43. Keith R...

    Keith R... Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Nov 27, 2012
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    #43 Keith R..., Mar 2, 2019
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2019
    Oops, guess I need to put one up. I just got this one back after restoration from The Last Wind-Up
    out of Bozeman Montana. It is a Verge hallmarked for 1796 on the inner case and 1799 on the outer
    case, from Stephen Van Wyck, New York. This period of Verge is known as the Federal period which
    the Revolutionary War lasted from 1775-1783, with Federal period post 1783.

    There are 18 known Verge examples surviving by Van Wyck. This watch, complete with dust cap and
    diamond end stone, completed it's timed test @ -2.5 minutes loss, in 24 hours.

    I had picked up an American Colonial from 1763 earlier in 2018 and it's currently in restoration by
    Carignan Watch Co. of Belmont, NH. We expect this one to complete in 2019. Thanks go out to
    Rich Newman and Tom McIntyre for their web sites of Colonial, Federal and post Federal period
    watches. Note, movement number 823 is on the inner case and movement for the Van Wyck
    verge.

    edit ***One should note both my Van Wyck and Thomas Perry verges are by London makers,
    with small amounts of finish work done in New York. Both verges regulated by Tompion disks.


    Keith R...

    van5 (600x800).jpg van2 (600x800).jpg van4 (600x800).jpg van3 (600x800).jpg van6 (600x800).jpg van (600x800).jpg 100_3843 (1024x768).jpg 100_3857 (1024x768).jpg
     
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  44. Buffomarinus

    Buffomarinus Registered User

    Mar 7, 2020
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    Male
    Wood Butcher
    Far North Queensland, Australia
    Country Flag:
    I believe my recent acquisition would fall under this thread. The case is English, the movement is Swiss and the dial is label "New Haven Watch Co."

    I was born in New Haven, Connecticut, USA many, many years ago. As a four year old kid me dear sweet granny pointed out, as she drove me by, the large brick factory complex that the New Haven Clock and Watch Company was located in. I recently obtained this watch (attached images) from an Ebay seller here in Australia. I couldn't resist bidding on a watch with my old home town embossed on the dial even though it might fall under the classification of a "Swiss Fake."

    As can be seen, there is no attempt to disguise the fact that this is a Swiss movement. The dial and movement both state that this is Swiss made. The Swiss name and location of Schwob Freres & Co La Chaux De Fonds can be seen stamped on the bridge. I cannot find a serial number on the movement even after totally disassembling, cleaning, oiling and reassembling.

    Further research points to this movement being basically the same as a Swiss Cyma cal. 998. I'd be grateful if anyone could pin my movement down to a "ball park" date of manufacture. I have seen these movements dated anywhere between 1920 to 1960.

    G'Day to all and thanks in advance for any info on this beast.

    Cheers,

    Buffo

    Case and info.jpg Case inside.jpg Dial.jpg mech1.jpg
     
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  45. Mark Kauzlarich

    Mark Kauzlarich Registered User
    NAWCC Member

    Sep 12, 2019
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    Great thread. Someone will have the answers for you Buffomarinus. Wish I could help.

    I did recently stumble upon an auction listing for a beautiful Patek Philippe Rattrapante with the cuvette signed "For B.H. Stief Jewlery Co. Nashville, Tenn." The auction is tied to a member here and not being clear on the rules here about linking or posting photos (and being a photographer I never share photos I don't own), maybe he can post photos for us? It's a beautiful piece and with my love of rattrapante I wish I could be a player but I don't know where the upper end on this auction will be.
     
  46. musicguy

    musicguy Moderator
    NAWCC Member Sponsor

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    #46 musicguy, Mar 9, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
    Hi Buffo and welcome to the NAWCC forum.

    I believe this is a Swiss watch that just used the name or
    they bought the rights to use the name. I do not believe
    that this has any relation to the New Haven Watch Co.

    Maybe someone can correct me if I'm wrong.




    Rob
     
  47. Buffomarinus

    Buffomarinus Registered User

    Mar 7, 2020
    18
    11
    3
    Male
    Wood Butcher
    Far North Queensland, Australia
    Country Flag:
    G'Day Rob,

    Thank you for your reply.

    I'm certain that my Swiss watch has nothing to do with the New Haven Watch Company of New Haven, Connecticut. The New Haven, Connecticut company was known for their "dollar watches" (one of which I possess) and mantel clocks. I know from the research I've done on the subject that the Swiss adopted the New Haven brand name along with many other brands resembling US companies so that they could break into the Yank's lucrative pocket watch market.

    I am curious to see if there is a source by which I can accurately date the movement. The movement resembles the Swiss Cyma cal. 998. When I track down examples of the Cyma cal. 998 movement (Ebay and other online sellers) I come up with dates ranging from the 1920s to the 1960s.

    Buffo
     
  48. Ethan Lipsig

    Ethan Lipsig Registered User
    NAWCC Gold Member

    Jan 8, 2006
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    80% Retired Attorney
    Pasadena
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    Many C.H. Meylans were private labeled by leading jewelers, almost all in the United States. Some of these, such as Cresarrow, probably should be classified as separate brands, rather than a jeweler private labels.

    The following list only lists a jeweler once, ignoring immaterial name changes, but when it wasn’t clear that two firms with similar names were a single firm, they both are listed.

    This list includes movements that are probable, but not certain C.H. Meylans.

    The most common private labelers were Bailey, Banks & Biddle, Cartier, Cresarrow, and Tiffany.

    It appears from consecutive serial numbers that jewelers often ordered watches in batches. For example, ##85,553, 83,562, and 85,813 all are Cresarrow PLs, all Type Fs in my classification. I haven’t seen any other C.H. Meylans in that range of serial numbers. It is possible that Cresarrow ordered a batch of Type F movements that at least ranged from 85,552-85,813.


    1. Ackermann, Bicker & Manuel

    2. A.N. Anderson

    3. A. Andrew’s Diamond Palace

    4. Andrews & Winston

    5. James R. Armiger

    6. Bailey, Banks & Biddle

    7. Bamberger & Gaines

    8. Bancroft Bros.

    9. William Barthman

    10. R. Baudd

    11. A.C. Benedict

    12. Benedict Bros.

    13. H. Bicker

    14. Bigelow Kennard

    15. Henry Birks (Canada)

    16. Black, Starr & Frost

    17. H. Bockstruck

    18. L. Borel

    19. Cady & Olmsted

    20. Cartier (French)

    21. J.E. Caldwell

    22. Frank Clark

    23. Cowell Hubbard

    24. Cresarrow

    25. C.A.W. Crosby

    26. T.E. Dickson

    27. Dillon & Son PL

    28. Henry E. Eckert

    29. J. Elivtherau

    30. E.S. Ettenheimer

    31. Feagans

    32. O.M. Ferrand

    33. Foster & Co.

    34. Galt & Bro.

    35. E.D.W.

    36. E.M. Gattle

    37. Chas. D.P. Gibson

    38. Chas. Gleson

    39. Grogan

    40. J. Guisan

    41. Giteau (Swiss)

    42. Gurney & Ware

    43. A.L. Haman

    44. Hamman & Koch

    45. Albert Hansen

    46. C. Hardegen

    47. Hardy & Hayes

    48. Harris & Shafer

    49. J.C. Herkner

    50. Hess & Culbertson

    51. Hodgson Kennard

    52. J. B. Hudson

    53. Hudson & Son

    54. E.H. Jaccard

    55. S. Jankowitz

    56. Jaques & Marcus

    57. J.H. Johnson

    58. G. Kapp

    59. Sameul Kirk

    60. T. Kirkpatrick

    61. Henry Kohn & Sons

    62. F. Walter Lawrence

    63. A. Leonville (Swiss)

    64. C. Leonville (Swiss)

    65. E. Leonville (Swiss)

    66. J.A. Linherr

    67. Linz

    68. Marcus & Co.

    69. Mathez & Co.

    70. Mauboussin (French)

    71. David Mayer

    72. S. H. Monell

    73. Alex Newburger

    74. H. A. Ockel

    75. A. & J. Plaut

    76. C. Pruesser

    77. W.M. Purrington

    78. Ed. Richard (Swiss)

    79. Riggs & Bro.

    80. F.A. Robbins

    81. Rocheville (Swiss)

    82. F. Roehm

    83. Rosenkrans & Thatcher

    84. Rowe Bros.

    85. Shreve & Co.

    86. Shreve, Crump & Low

    87. Simons Bro.

    88. A. Skinner

    89. Smith Patterson

    90. Spaulding

    91. Gaven Spence

    92. Geo. M. Squire

    93. H.N. Squire

    94. Theo. B. Starr

    95. Stowell

    96. Tiffany & Co.

    97. Tilden, Thurber

    98. Julius C. Walk

    99. Geo. W. Welsh & Son

    100. Wheat & Hancher

    101. Whipple

    102. William Wise
     
  49. LloydB

    LloydB Registered User

    Feb 24, 2006
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    That looks awfully familiar (see my avatar)
    Is this layout the hunting variation of Longines 21.54?

    Parker1 copy.JPG
     
  50. pmwas

    pmwas Registered User

    Dec 12, 2010
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    #50 pmwas, Mar 15, 2020
    Last edited: Mar 15, 2020
    I appears to be Longines, and so it was identified on the Forum. But I don't know the exact caliber.
    I have not worked on it, because it has a broken Staff and I have no means to repair it yet (I tried to repivot a few staffs and all attempts went bad).
    So I have no details, sorry...

    BTW - another watch for this thread (actually Canada, but...) - Alexander McMillan, Ottawa, Ont.

    DSC01495.JPG

    Zenith, mid grade, 15 jewel...

    DSC01490.JPG

    Lovely plates' finish :)
     

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