Eureka Eureka help requested

Discussion in 'Electric Horology' started by Frank Manning, Oct 5, 2009.

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  1. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Nov 22, 2005
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    Hi Everyone,

    As you can see from the pictures I have a very dirty Eureka movement I need to work on. This is my first, so I would like some help before I dig in.

    In the view of the front there is the Eureka label. As far as I can see this label needs to be removed before the gears can come out. I don't see any screws or how to get it off. It also needs polishing. Are the letters and numbers recessed, so I don't remove them when I polish it?

    The ball bearings inside the housing are really gummed up. Does the housing cover come off with a spanner type wrench? Is there a seal behind it? Also, is just a light film of oil the right amount, or should there be quite a bit in there?

    One view shows some paper shims moving the reear support apart. Why would they be needed?

    I guess this is enough questions for now. I know these movements are expensive, so I don't want to damage it any more.

    Thanks, Frank
     

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  2. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
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    Frank, the label plate is just a light press fit of the two posts into the bosses on the front movement plate. Just remove the star-shape rating device by pulling straight forward, then pull the label plate out the same way. The information on the label plate is stamped into the brass, you won't remove it when polishing. If you are careful you can polish without removing the black paint that is in the stamped info.
    The ring retainers screw out with a spanner type wrench. These originally had a very thin ring gasket between the ring and the glass cover. If it's missing you can make new gaskets using kraft paper or thin automotive gasket material. Thoroughly clean the bearings, housing, etc. I put in a couple of large drops of a good synthetic oil (Etsyntha 859 or Mobil 1) when replacing the bearings.
    Those paper shims aren't original and should not be needed. Could be someone tried to free up the balance shaft from the sticky oil in the bearings by spreading the plates.
    One thing to look for when you are disassembling the movement, is there may be metal shims between the bottom movement posts and the steel armature plate. Those are to adjust the clearance between the balance and the plate to ensure best operation. When properly adjusted there should be a clearance between the balance coil core end and the plate of no more than a piece of kitchen wax paper.
     
  3. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Thanks John,

    Those are very thorough answers to my questions from the expert. It should get me going. Like most of the electromagnetic clocks, they appear very simple.

    Frank
     
  4. Ralph

    Ralph Registered User
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    A caveat... assuming it was keeping time , before it became distressed, and the balance screws were not altered in position...be sure, if you remove them for polishing, that they go back into the same location.... in my opinion, the balance is more of a compound pendulum, than a balance and if you mix up the locations of the screws, you will have fits, trying to bring it back into time.

    The screws are of varying weight.

    Ralph
     
  5. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
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    #5 John Hubby, Oct 6, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 6, 2009
    Frank, I omitted one point regarding removal of the star-rating shaft. These are held in place by a taper pin placed through a hole in the shaft just behind the front movement plate. The pin has to be removed before you can pull out the shaft, you may have already discovered this.

    Also, I recommend you check Dave West's website DaveWestClocks where he goes into detail about the restoration of a Eureka movement. Lots of good info there.

    One question, does this movement have a case? If so, will appreciate your posting photo for documentation purposes. I am compiling a Eureka research database that now has 170 clocks listed, adding more will help provide good info about how many were made of each model, when they were actually made, etc.
     
  6. Ray Brown

    Ray Brown Registered User
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    Frank

    I have recently posted some info and links on the NAWCC Community Site that may be of help; http://community.nawcc.org/NAWCC/Chapter133/Resources/ViewDocument/Default.aspx?DocumentKey=88a14f58-4d13-4e4a-9280-156000e1778d.

    If you do take the poise weights off (I have done this) you can repoise the wheel by removing the balance spring and using the frame to support the wheel during balancing. One thing that needs to be noted however is that the weights are not the same, these weights are essentially in pairs and should be assembled back that way or balance is impossible. Hopefully no one in the past has mixed them up. Some are solid and others are mostly shells but all look the same from the outside. Let me know if you need more help.
     
  7. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Nov 22, 2005
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    John;

    Yes, it has a case. It is a wall clock and is in terrible shape. I am leaving that for the owner to upgrade. I will post a picture in the next day or so. Or, give me your email, and I will email it. Mine is frankmanning@sbcglobal.net.

    Ray;

    I tried to go to that site, but since I am not a member I can not get in. Could you email it to me at my address I listed above for John?

    Thanks, Frank
     
  8. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    John,

    Here are a few pictures of the clock case. It is 17 inches in diameter.

    Should there be a gasket on both sides of the glass? I assume they are basically there to keep the glass from getting chipped.

    Also, when you say two drops of oil I am assuming two decent size drops, one on each ball.

    Any idea for a date on this clock?

    Frank
     

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  9. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
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    Frank, thanks for the case photos. This is the No. 15 Gallery Model, was produced in mahogany and oak. From the info I've collected so far, it appears the short and tall movements were made pretty much in parallel between mid 1908 and mid 1910, with the short movements starting first and the tall ones maybe 4 to 6 months later. Using my data, the movement of your clock would have been made in the second half of 1909. However, when it was mated with the case could be another story altogether.

    Not easy to piece together but as best we can see right now the clock assembly drug out to sometime in 1913. What we do know is that the clocks were exhibited in 1908 and available for commercial sale in early 1909. They continued to be sold until 1914 when the company was closed. There is evidence that a lot of capital went into manufacturing and inventory of the movements, followed by similar investment in cases but without corresponding sales to support the operation. They had 15 models in their 1911 catalog, and I have identified another 11 that aren't shown in the catalog, an amazing number of designs to showcase only two movement designs; aside from that several of the cases were completely closed so you could not see the really attractive balance wheel movement. They also had to try to sell clocks that were very expensive for the time and face poor economic conditions leading into WWI at the same time.

    Altogether it appears about 10,700 movements were made based on the data I have collected, probably not all these wound up in cases before the company was shuttered.
     
  10. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Hi John,

    I have it up and running now. It swings about +/- 90degrees. Is that about right?

    Also, When the pin touches the stationary contact, is it always going to hit one side, or does it alternate between the down and up swings?

    Thanks for all your info.

    Frank
     
  11. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
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    #11 John Hubby, Oct 9, 2009
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2009
    Frank, are you saying 90 degrees each direction from midpoint, or 90 degrees total? The balance should turn about 230 to 270 degrees total in each direction (about 3/4 of a full turn) when properly adjusted. If you are getting 180 degrees or less you will need to work in the contact point adjustment timing, and also be sure there is no contact on the return swing.

    The contact pin will only complete the driving circuit when it passes the flag (stationary contact) as it rotates upward, giving a metal to metal contact. On the return rotation, the insulator side of the pin should go on the opposite side of the flag so there is no electrical contact made. In other words the impulse is in one direction only.

    The contact pin should be set up so that it "just" touches the bottom of the flag with the balance in its null position (no power applied). To adjust this you need to loosen the screw in the balance spring collet that fits on the balance shaft, rotate the balance to obtain and hold this position, then reset the balance spring collet screw. In this position the balance arms will be about 12 degrees from vertical before dead center. Also, when power is applied, the clock will automatically start up since the pin is in contact with the flag.

    Check this adjustment and let us know how it works.
     
  12. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Hi John,

    I will check out your suggested adjustments. Right now it is only getting about 125 degrees in each direction making a total of about 250. According to how I read your requirement it should be double that.

    Is the ground path through the hairspring or through the roller? I do note that the roller and cam do separate contact during a small portion of the swing.

    Frank
     
  13. John Hubby

    John Hubby Senior Administrator Emeritus
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    Frank, let me try to clarify . . the balance rotation in ONE direction, from the point it starts turning until it stops and begins to reverse direction, should be 230 to 270 degrees or about 3/4 of a turn. When it reverses direction, it will turn 3/4 of a turn back to the original position. Thus, in each direction of rotation it will turn the full 230 to 270 degrees. If you are counting both directions then yes, the total rotation for a full cycle will be 500 degrees +/-.

    As best I can determine the primary ground path is through the balance spring to the movement frame. There may also be some current pass through the bearings but the oil would somewhat insulate that. The roller is not touching the balance shaft cam at the point of electrical contact, so I doubt there is any ground action there.
     
  14. Frank Manning

    Frank Manning Registered User
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    Nov 22, 2005
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    John,

    With your help I have it running with a swing from start to stop of about 260 degrees. Then it goes back 260 degrees. Just trying to adjust the time now.

    Thanks for your help.

    Frank
     

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